Kioti Vs Bobcat loader update

[Slackdaddy]

Posted this in the Bobcat section too, but it is a Kioti.

Just got off the phone with an engineer with Bobcat, The rhino loader they are using are NOT spec'd the same as the ones Rhino is listing on their site, that Bobcat had Rhino make changes.

These are the numbers from the Bobcat engineer:
CT120 (6TL loader) - 1140lb at the pins
CT225-230 (7TL loader) 1605lb at the pins


Update #2

Just got a return call from an engineer at Rhino, He say's no, nothing special about the 6TL and 7TL loaders going on the Bobcat tractors, and quoted the Rhino 6TL and 7TL specs (850, 1035 at the pins)

Who do You believe?

Nick

 

[Gittyup]

I had read in earlier threads that the Bobcat loaders were specd a little lighter than the Kioti. 1600+ lbs sounds almost too good to be true. Though, I think Rhino makes a good product. At least my Rhino backhoe seems to be well made.

 

[wallace]

Okay so Rhino is going to make a loader specific for Bobcat..That's BS it is the same exact loader I can buy and hang on a Kioti. the only difference is the color.
Just like Rhino builts the same exact backhoe for New Holland what are they going to tell you no its different we make the Bobcat's special.
Slackdaddy I am not arguing your conversation I am just so feed up with the BS the Bobcat dealer have been saying..."We made a lot of changes to meet our specs"
"It's our own hydraulic pump"

Bullcrap it is a Kioti painted white with different stickers and badges.
Now for Rhino to say that, the guy has no clue.

Sorry guys but things are getting uglyer around here from what I hear they just signed the local Bobcat dealer for his tractors.

 

[Slackdaddy]

Rick,
No, The Rhino tech I talked to stopped short of calling the Bobcat engineer a lier. The Rhino Tech said there is nothing special about the loaders they are sending Bobcat, and was baffled about the Bobcat "specs" on "thier" loaders.
He ended the phone call quoting Rhino's specs on the 6TL and 7TL loaders as they are sent to Bobcat (830 on the 6TL and 1035 on the 7TL).

Advertising the Case 580 this weekend, talk to you as soon as it is sold.

Nick

 

[JoelD]

Okay so Rhino is going to make a loader specific for Bobcat..That's BS it is the same exact loader I can buy and hang on a Kioti. the only difference is the color.
Just like Rhino builts the same exact backhoe for New Holland what are they going to tell you no its different we make the Bobcat's special.
Slackdaddy I am not arguing your conversation I am just so feed up with the BS the Bobcat dealer have been saying..."We made a lot of changes to meet our specs"
"It's our own hydraulic pump"

Bullcrap it is a Kioti painted white with different stickers and badges.
Now for Rhino to say that, the guy has no clue.

Sorry guys but things are getting uglyer around here from what I hear they just signed the local Bobcat dealer for his tractors.

Rick, what do you mean "just signed the local bobcat dealer for his tractors?"

 

[VictorW]

A friend has used my CK30hst and liked it. He has a friend at a Bobcat dealer and thought he'd take a look and possibly buy. When he asked, "isn't this just a Kioti painted white", the owner told him that yes it is a Kioti but Bobcat saw Kioti's shortfalls and supposed problems and made changes in those areas. OK, they maybe using a different loader and backhoe, but I looked at the tractor and couldn't see a difference.

I guess Kioti's shortfall is the orange paint!!!

 

[PBinWA]

I guess Kioti's shortfall is the orange paint!!!

My outsider observation is that Kioti's shortfall was it's dealer network. Not enough good dealers (like wallace). The Bobcat dealer network gives them good store front and legitimacy in the eyes of many people.

 

[wallace]

Rick, what do you mean "just signed the local bobcat dealer for his tractors?"

The Bobcat dealer is going to start to carry the tractors now.
From what I understand just because you are a Bobcat dealer doesn't mean you get the tractors.
I was at a farm show looking at the mid mowers on the Bobcats and a sales rep approched me and ask me some questions he asked me if I knew who Wallace tractor was ( I had on a teeshirt with our logo on) I said ya I know the owner..AMY and I pointed to her, It turned out that he was the national sales manager. He said he has hear somethings about our dealership and was going to stop by to see if we had an interest in selling the Bobcats.

I told him thanks but I didn't really think it was a good idea it would be very hard to sell the same tractor with a different color.

So from what I gathered the Bobcat tractors are a different division that the skidsteers and excavators.

 

[Tym Man]

Down here in the deep south Bobcat is setting up just as many non skid steer dealers as they are Skid Steer dealers. They offer it to the Bobcat skid steer dealer first if little interest is shown they have moved on to small independant dealers. Some of the promises Bobcat is making to these guys are unbelievable.

 

[wallace]

promises..promises..promises lets just hope they uphold their promises

 

[JoelD]

Thanks Rick,

Would it be a bad thing for you to sell the bobcat tagged version rather than the kioti tagged version?

I have no idea how any of that works.

Oh yeah, Gotta get my "looking forward to the cookout next year" plug in.

 

[Slackdaddy]

Price aside (have seen Bobcat lower, have seen Kioti lower),
Problem with the Bobcat version is the loader, a weaker loader according to Rhino, AND you can only use a Rhino backhoe/subframe with the Bocat.
Was on the phone with Woods, they do not make (not in the works either), a subframe kit for the Rhino "loadered" Bobcat kioti's.

Nick

 

[bluechip]

According to my Kioti TM, the Bobcat venture is totally independent and does not involve KIOTI USA in any way, so Bobcat deals direct with Daedong in Korea. Thier parts support is totally independent of KIOTIs. If so, we should never see a white daedong at Kioti's warehouse in NC. I was not aware that Bobcat was setting up tractor dealers to sell these units and that is disapointing news. In this day and age, there seem to manufacturers and then there are marketing companies that pose as manufacturers. More and more of the compact tractor business is being done by the later. Daedong owns 100% of KIOTI, so there is common ownership at least of the manufacturer and the marketing company. I wonder if Bobcat is still manufacturing anything or just marketing Doosan and Daedong products.

With an oversupply of "manufacturers" and a shortage of good dealers, it would seem that good dealers will be what would be marketed and sought by the consumer, and tractors will become almost generic, with dealers selling multiple lines of competing tractors, like a supermarket. Then the manufacturers will have to compete for the DEALERS business.

 

[JoelD]

According to my Kioti TM, the Bobcat venture is totally independent and does not involve KIOTI USA in any way, so Bobcat deals direct with Daedong in Korea. Thier parts support is totally independent of KIOTIs. If so, we should never see a white daedong at Kioti's warehouse in NC. I was not aware that Bobcat was setting up tractor dealers to sell these units and that is disapointing news. In this day and age, there seem to manufacturers and then there are marketing companies that pose as manufacturers. More and more of the compact tractor business is being done by the later. Daedong owns 100% of KIOTI, so there is common ownership at least of the manufacturer and the marketing company. I wonder if Bobcat is still manufacturing anything or just marketing Doosan and Daedong products.

With an oversupply of "manufacturers" and a shortage of good dealers, it would seem that good dealers will be what would be marketed and sought by the consumer, and tractors will become almost generic, with dealers selling multiple lines of competing tractors, like a supermarket. Then the manufacturers will have to compete for the DEALERS business.

Well put, didn't realize the difference, but clear based on what you've written. As a customer, dealer support is key, as that is where the rubber meets the road for most of us. I bought my machine used locally, I found rick on this site. I called him, he answered a bunch of questions. I purchase all my parts from him (even though I pay shipping) as a result of his help. I also purchase attachments from him, even though I need to drive a couple hundred miles to pick up. Would rather give my money to someone who is very helpful and a wealth of easily shared information. I am confident we are coming back to a time where customer service is as important if not more important than price paid, particularly for machines like these.

Joel

 

[depratt_equip]

Wallace

I had a Bobcat sales rep come in today, so you are right they must be a different division of Bobcat. I pretty much told him the same thing.