hyd. operating temperature

[MichaelE]

Does anyone that uses a remote hyd. valve notice how warm it gets? This summer I added a Tatro grapple to my B2910. I used a Prince open center valve rated at 25 gpm. I believe I plumbed it correctly, I ran a hose from the loader valve's PB port to the remote valve's IN side. Then a hose from the valve's OUT back to the tractor where the PB had originally been connected. The whole system works fine, but after working it for ,say, an hour on a hot day, the remote gets so warm you can't touch it for more than 10 -15 seconds. The loader valve gets warm too but not to the point where you can't hang on to it. Is this normal? I don't know how hot hydraulic oil is supposed to operate. The oil level is up to the top mark on the stick, and both filters and the hyd. system oil were changed at the 300 hr. mark which was about 25 hrs. ago. Any thoughts? I fear I may be cooking the HST pump.
Thanks, Mike

 

[Farmerford]

Mike:

I don't think you have a problem. Most pump and motor specifications assume the oil will reach at least 185 deg F (70deg F) and therefore the viscosity recommended is high enough that the moving parts are adequately lubricated at that temperature.

Water just out of a hot water heater may be 140 deg F, and if you soak a piece of metal in it you (at least I) will have great difficulty holding it tightly in your hand for more than a few seconds. So your oil is probably under 140 deg F. The FEL valve probably feels cooler because its greater surface dissipates heat more rapidly than does the auxiliary valve. And is is probably bolted fairly tightly to a metal plate that serves as a good heat sink.

 

[Bird]

Mike, a sorta rule of thumb is 100 degrees F above the ambient temperature. So you can expect things to get too hot to touch. After I added the top 'n tilt to my B2710 and noticed how hot that valve got, I did some testing of my own with a probe into the hydraulic oil and had to agree with what I'd read about 100 over ambient.

 

[jinman]

Hydraulic oil can stand temperatures above 220 F, but the oil will deteriorate rapidly as it goes over 250 F. Your oil is probably heated much more by the HST transmission than the operation of the remote. Just think, the water in your radiator is probably 180-200 F and the engine oil is even slightly higher. Any of these temperatures would be way too high for anything more than momentary skin contact.

 

[AndyinIowa]

A lot of new construction and compact construction vehicles (BHL's, SSL's, etc...) can hit 240F as intermittant for max ambient conditions (desert).

Only takes a few seconds to get a very nasty burn at those temps.


IowaAndy

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Oils can hit those temps no problem. But what about the other components? Under high pressure, your seals that are rated for 212 degrees will begin to deform and extrude. If they don't extrude, they become brittle when they cool.

Anyway Mike, you have nothing to worry about. Everything is normal.

 

[john_bud]

I have some old specs on my ford industrial that show cycle times with fluid at 160F, which is normal operating temperature.

You NEED to get up to that temp or a bit higher to get the moisture out or you will have issues.

jb

 

[MichaelE]

Thanks to all who replied. As always, this form is a wealth of experience
JB, I've noticed you always stress the importance of running a machine long and hard enough to dissipate condensation. As a result, in cooler weather, I save up smaller tractor chores so I can do this. Thanks, Mike

 

[Wayne County Hose]

A little isopropyl will do the same thing. Running your equipment up to temperature is a good thing, but if you can't run it hard for a long time, adding a little isopropyl will help.

 

[J_J]

A little isopropyl will do the same thing. Running your equipment up to temperature is a good thing, but if you can't run it hard for a long time, adding a little isopropyl will help.

Most people will not know that they have water in their system until they check the fluid, or notice diminished operation.

Are you saying to add isopropyl to hydraulic oil? What is the purpose of this? I am guessing it is to remove or absorb the water, but what then. You have now changed the chemistry of the hydraulic fluid. Most hydraulic oils have some kind of detergent in them, and therefore will emulsify the water in with the oil, and I don't think there is enough heat to vaporize the water. What you will have is a milky looking oil that will need changing real quick.

I haven't tried it, but I don't think you can cook the water out of emulsified oil.

I have read in hydraulic literature that non-detergent oil is better, because the water is heavier, and will go to the bottom of the tank, which can be drained off before causing any trouble.

Even is non-detergent oils, if the pump can pick up the water and mix it under pressure, It is still bad hydraulic fluid.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

J_J,

The isoprppyl will help to dissipate the water. This is a common practice in snowplow units that almost never get up to temperature. We also used to do it in freezer forklifts that never see hydraulic oil temps over 50 degrees, some of them never get above freezing.

 

[Reg]

I think that some amount of the work energy is converted to heat energy in the process of pumping, also there is a form of fluid friction in the hoses, which also creates heat. These are the primary sources of the heat when just running, not lifting or moving cylinders.
I think the only things you can do about it is to increase the reservoir size and increase the diameter of the hoses, maybe add a supplemental oil cooler.

Somewhere there is a rule about reservoir size vs pump capacity, not sure but it might be 1 gallon of reservoir size for every gallon per minute of pump output ?

 

[Reg]

J_J,

The isoprppyl will help to dissipate the water. This is a common practice in snowplow units that almost never get up to temperature. We also used to do it in freezer forklifts that never see hydraulic oil temps over 50 degrees, some of them never get above freezing.

I'm guessing this is to prevent the water from separating out, sinking to the bottom, freezing and blocking the pick-up ?
If so, it sounds like a good idea, but the problem of how to get it OUT becomes harder.

Ummm, forklifts that never get above freezing probably don't get water (as condensate) in their hydraulic systems anyway ?

 

[J_J]

Curious minds want to know.

Here is some technical data for those interested in the compatibility of certain fluids to different o-ring material. This data is relative to us because of the chemicals that we use, or add in hydraulic fluids. Although the misuse of certain fluids in our tractors might not be catastrophic, it has caused plane crashes because the o-rings disintegrated.

I could not find anything about adding isopropyl to hydraulic fluid for water absorption. Isopropyl is used in gas to absorb water because it does mix to some degree and then is burned . You might get away with adding it to hydraulic fluid for a while, but you are modifying the hydraulic fluid, perhaps changing the viscosity. How do you even know how much to add?

I am still looking for data to support the use of isopropyl in hydraulic fluid.

http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SM=none&SC=Denatured Alcohol#mat

Sorry about that, it appears that you can't get on the site until you join. Somehow, I got on there and read the data about o-rings and fluid compatibility.

 

[Reg]

Curious minds want to know.

Here is some technical data for those interested in the compatibility of certain fluids to different o-ring material. This data is relative to us because of the chemicals that we use, or add in hydraulic fluids. Although the misuse of certain fluids in our tractors might not be catastrophic, it has caused plane crashes because the o-rings disintegrated.

I could not find anything about adding isopropyl to hydraulic fluid for water absorption. Isopropyl is used in gas to absorb water because it does mix to some degree and then is burned . You might get away with adding it to hydraulic fluid for a while, but you are modifying the hydraulic fluid, perhaps changing the viscosity. How do you even know how much to add?

I am still looking for data to support the use of isopropyl in hydraulic fluid.

eFunda: O-Ring Materials Compatibile with Chemical Denatured Alcohol

Well, its kinda tough to GET alcohol that doesn't have a significant amount of water in it anyway.
So I would want to know how much more it could absorb - like; MORE than what I would be adding ?

 

[J_J]

How about a Water Magnet. Sounds like an interesting concept.

Water from fuel tanks by selective absorption.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Ummm, forklifts that never get above freezing probably don't get water (as condensate) in their hydraulic systems anyway ?

Even snow evaporates, just at a slower rate than water.

For o-ring/chemical compatability www.herculesus.com

 

[KML]

Well, its kinda tough to GET alcohol that doesn't have a significant amount of water in it anyway.
So I would want to know how much more it could absorb - like; MORE than what I would be adding ?

Just thought I'd share something I stumbled onto a few years ago completely by chance.

It is hard to find but 99.9% pure isopropyl alcohol is readily available almost everywhere. It's just not advertized or even out sitting on the shelf. Almost every full service pharmacy has it for compounding medicines. If you ask the pharmacist they'll usually be happy to sell you some. It's not cheap, last time I bought it it was $6 for 10 OZ.

I do, however, have nothing to add to whether or not it should be put in hydraulic fluid.....

 

[J_J]

Another piece of info from an expert.

Water Contamination of Hydraulic Fluid

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Another piece of info from an expert.

Water Contamination of Hydraulic Fluid

Ah yes, I've read the writings of the self-proclaimed king of internet hydraulics. By the book, he is usually correct. Unfortunately, I haven't found a machine working in a book yet.