Roundup

[jtette]

I want to use roundup to kill about 2 acres of grass for replanting. If anyone has experience with this and would like to lead the blind, I would be grateful.

 

[Lindy]

I've had a bit of experience with roundup as you want to use it. I've also sprayed it with a wand sprayer for many years to control weeds on fencelines, and when I worked for a landscaping company we used it to control weed growth in massive beds of shrubs that were planted along interstate freeways.

Disclaimer: I'm no expert. Just a guy in the country who wants to redo a little bit of lawn. Your mileage may vary. I'm sure there are members on the board who have a lot more experience with this than me!

Timing:
My project this fall was to redo about 1/2 acre of lawn. I sprayed it right at the end of August, but wish I had done it about a month before that. You might be too late in our part of the country if you're still thinking about trying to seed this fall (not entirely sure about that, though).

Application:
I sprayed it with a boom sprayer that fits on my ATV. It cost about $199 at TSC 15 Gal. ATV Boom Sprayer. Roundup Max cost about $105 for 2.5 gallons at TSC. That will go quite a ways. The sprayer is 15 gallons, and I mix at 3 oz. of roundup per gallon of water. So I added about 45 oz. of roundup to each 15 gallon tank. Some people have told me that's stronger than it needs to be, but it worked fine for me. YMMV.

It seemed to take a good week to really start showing the kill. However, it didn't really touch the wild strawberry and some other weeds that I don't know the names of. The areas that were mostly grass were toasted very quickly. Not so in the areas that were predominantly weeds.

This is what it looked like after about 10 days -- sprayed vs unsprayed. Notice that it didn't take out some of the weeds. A second spraying at higher concentration seemed to help in those areas.

After tilling once:

This is what it looked like after some pulverizing:

And this is what it looked like just about as I was to seed it with the OS1548.

 

[JDeerekid]

Lindy - That is a nice job. No rocks? I would like to redo my back lawn which is actually just a hayfield that I keep mowed when I mow the rest of the lawn, but it is very uneven and very rocky. How much would you charge?

jtette - Dont be afraid of roundup. Just read the directions on the label and use it accordingly. I reccomend going a little heavier thanthe recommended dose. It wont hurt anything as it just kills the grass and does not leach into the soil.
Are you planning on tilling it up also. Farmers around here when replanting grass will spray roundup about an hour before overseeding and it seems to work fine, no tilling involved.

 

[Lindy]

Lindy - That is a nice job. No rocks? I would like to redo my back lawn which is actually just a hayfield that I keep mowed when I mow the rest of the lawn, but it is very uneven and very rocky.

Heh, thanks. From what I understand, the land used to be farmed 20+ years ago. So maybe they already picked out most of the rock. That being said, I did spend a couple of hours picking softball-sized rock out of there. Can't complain really.

How much would you charge?

You couldn't afford me!! If I've learned anything, it's that guys who do this for a living really earn their money. It took a lot of time, fuel, frustration and $ to get it to this point.

 

[skipro3]

I use round-up mixed with water at 100:1 ratio. Meaning; 1.28 oz of round-up to a gallon of water. Anything stronger and I just don't see any more kill than at the lower ratio. Why use more than you need?

 

[jtette]

Pictures are worth a 1000 words. Thanks Lindy. I do plan to till this fall, but I don't plan on seeding until the spring. I was going to use the winter freeze and thaw as my natural pulverizer. I was looking at the ATV sprayer at TSC, so Lindy, thanks for the tip.

Question Lindy: when you used the sprayer, does it have a volume setting or do you just drive at a certain MPH?

Thanks to all.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Pictures are worth a 1000 words. Thanks Lindy. I do plan to till this fall, but I don't plan on seeding until the spring. I was going to use the winter freeze and thaw as my natural pulverizer. I was looking at the ATV sprayer at TSC, so Lindy, thanks for the tip.

Question Lindy: when you used the sprayer, does it have a volume setting or do you just drive at a certain MPH?

Thanks to all.

The manufacturer of the nozzles on your sprayer (most commonly TEE-JET) will have a chart for output at given pressures. Output/coverage is regulated by operating pressure X ground speed. The sprayer will have (should have?) a regulator to control operating PSI.

 

[Lindy]

Question Lindy: when you used the sprayer, does it have a volume setting or do you just drive at a certain MPH?

FWJ is correct. All that stuff is in the owner's manual. I learned there are a lot of balls to juggle when you try to do it exactly how they specify.

It varies with so many things:
- Solution concentration
- Spray pressure
- Spray coverage pattern
- Speed of the ATV
- Length and species of grass / weeds
- Operator error

If you want to use this ATV sprayer, my advice would be as follows:
1. Mix tank to desired ratio (I use 3 oz per gallon, skipro3 uses 1.28 oz per gallon, etc...).
2. Mix/agitate ingredients in tank to uniform consistency
3. Set pressure regulator to 30 psi (at least on this ATV sprayer)
4. Go slow and uniform on the ATV as you spray (1-2 mph). It can be difficult to do this evenly.

The user manual you get with your roundup will have pages and pages of usage/application guides. Most of it will not apply to your situation. I had to look very carefully to find any info about concentration rates for my application, and finally settled on 3 oz roundup per gallon of water.

I mowed the area to 2.5" about a week before spraying. That way you don't waste spray on tall plants, and you also give stuff a chance to grow back a little bit and "green up" before spraying. Roundup likes green stuff. After the roundup did its job, I went back and scalped it with the mower as low as I could. No sense in fighting all that dead grass and weeds with the tiller and every other implement that follows.

Spray when it's dry outside and when you're sure we're not going to get rain for at least a few hours. Also, DON'T spray when it's WINDY (don't ask me how I know this). When you're spraying, check to be sure you're leaving a fine "dew" on the vegetation as the solution mists down to the ground. If after a week you see you've missed some areas or some areas didn't die down too good, you can always hit it again with the "wand" attachment that comes with the ATV sprayer.

The first couple of times you do this it's easy to doubt yourself, because it doesn't really look like you're doing anything. But rest assured, after a week or two, you'll have some really dead weeds. If you didn't do it right, no big deal. You can always spray again to touch up areas that didn't die, and it's not that big a deal if you spray too much (within reason). It only costs a little extra that way. It's not exactly like we're spraying 160 acres or anything.

One other thing -- learn from my mistake: Use water to spray down and clean your ATV wheels of any residual roundup before you drive across your nice lawn. If you don't, you'll get two nice dead stripes from where your tires applied roundup to your grass. Don't ask me how I know this.

 

[darkviper]

I didnt have time to read all the post but ill help you out on the cost. Go to your local ag supply and get a product called Glyfos. It is the generic round up. Same chemical and concentration but does not have the kill guarantee. Some farmers need the guarantee that is the difference.You can get 2.5 gallons here for about 40-50 bucks. A lot cheaper then round up. I mix it at 3% and if I have woody growth say like briers or small trees I mix with a 3% solution of crossbow which you can purchase at your local supply. But bear in mind that if you mix those two together whatever it touches is dead. Even large tress if you put it on enough leaves. Both are contact systemic so it has to touch leaves to kill. Afterwards it will not kill what comes up after the application. I use these all the time and never had a problem with the vegetation afterwards even with Poison oak and ivy

 

[jtette]

Thanks guys. I did find a generic roundup that is around $88 for 2.5 gallons. The roundup at TSC was $159.95 which was about $50 more than I expected. I never would have thought about driving over the good grass to get to the water hose. You may have just saved me a couple of self-inflicted blows to the forehead with the palm of my hand. Thanks again.

 

[savageayape]

The active chemical in Roundup is called Glyphosate. That is the generic version being refered to. Just look for Glyphosate.

 

[skipro3]

There is a granular version of Roundup call QuickPro. It's easier to handle if you are clumsy like me; I tend to spill a 2.5 gallon jug that is full when trying to pour into a little bitty 1 cup measuring cup. Ha!

Check it out here:
QuickPro Roundup Herbicide Frequently Asked Questions | Gempler's

Also note that the first FAQ on their page has the mix at 1.5 oz per gallon rather than 1.28 for the liquid when spraying on grass.

I checked around a little to see what other places use for a mix ratio. I found most places use 1.5 oz of liquid concentrate per gallon of water, like Middlebury College:
State of the Environment - Landscaping

With the cost of RoundupPro so high, I just can't see mixing it at 3oz per gallon. That's like paying double the cost for the stuff. My opinion and all that...

 

[Lindy]

There is a granular version of Roundup call QuickPro. It's easier to handle if you are clumsy like me; I tend to spill a 2.5 gallon jug that is full when trying to pour into a little bitty 1 cup measuring cup. Ha!

Check it out here:
QuickPro Roundup Herbicide Frequently Asked Questions | Gempler's

Also note that the first FAQ on their page has the mix at 1.5 oz per gallon rather than 1.28 for the liquid when spraying on grass.

I checked around a little to see what other places use for a mix ratio. I found most places use 1.5 oz of liquid concentrate per gallon of water, like Middlebury College:
State of the Environment - Landscaping

With the cost of RoundupPro so high, I just can't see mixing it at 3oz per gallon. That's like paying double the cost for the stuff. My opinion and all that...

Thanks for the links on that. The best I could tell when trying to decipher the 150 page user's guide that came with the bottle was to use 2 oz per gallon of water. This was 2-3 years ago, so my memory is a little foggy.

It was after spraying fencelines by hand for several years that I settled on the 3 oz per gallon.

For the 1/2 acre plot that I just did, the 3oz/gal concentration completely toasted the finer patches of grass in a very short time. However, some of the areas of tougher weeds (wild strawberries, creeping charlie, some other stuff I don't know) were hardly touched.

From what I've learned reading on this forum, it sounds like I maybe need to add something stronger to the mix for that stuff? Like "Crossbow"?

 

[Oleozz]

Lindy----If I had good looking soil like you have it wouldn't be in grass, it would be in sweet corn.
Thanks for the pics.

 

[Lindy]

Lindy----If I had good looking soil like you have it wouldn't be in grass, it would be in sweet corn.
Thanks for the pics.

Interesting to hear you say that

Now I'm no expert, but I thought our topsoil around here (western NY) has too much clay and is pretty crappy. Where I grew up in Minnesota, the topsoil was a deep, rich BLACK color. Really good looking soil.

That being said, the soil around here will still grow stuff pretty good.

It's all relative, I guess.

 

[jtette]

I've had a bit of experience with roundup as you want to use it. I've also sprayed it with a wand sprayer for many years to control weeds on fencelines, and when I worked for a landscaping company we used it to control weed growth in massive beds of shrubs that were planted along interstate freeways.

Disclaimer: I'm no expert. Just a guy in the country who wants to redo a little bit of lawn. Your mileage may vary. I'm sure there are members on the board who have a lot more experience with this than me!

Timing:
My project this fall was to redo about 1/2 acre of lawn. I sprayed it right at the end of August, but wish I had done it about a month before that. You might be too late in our part of the country if you're still thinking about trying to seed this fall (not entirely sure about that, though).

Application:
I sprayed it with a boom sprayer that fits on my ATV. It cost about $199 at TSC 15 Gal. ATV Boom Sprayer. Roundup Max cost about $105 for 2.5 gallons at TSC. That will go quite a ways. The sprayer is 15 gallons, and I mix at 3 oz. of roundup per gallon of water. So I added about 45 oz. of roundup to each 15 gallon tank. Some people have told me that's stronger than it needs to be, but it worked fine for me. YMMV.

It seemed to take a good week to really start showing the kill. However, it didn't really touch the wild strawberry and some other weeds that I don't know the names of. The areas that were mostly grass were toasted very quickly. Not so in the areas that were predominantly weeds.

This is what it looked like after about 10 days -- sprayed vs unsprayed. Notice that it didn't take out some of the weeds. A second spraying at higher concentration seemed to help in those areas.

After tilling once:

This is what it looked like after some pulverizing:

And this is what it looked like just about as I was to seed it with the OS1548.

What time of year did you apply it? I just mixed some generic stuff called honcho plus from my local seed and fertilizer dealer, and it's been about 5 days, and the grass seems to still be growing as well as the other grass. You said it took a week, so I suppose I need to be more patient; I'm just wondering if it takes longer with cooler night temperatures.

 

[Lindy]

What time of year did you apply it? I just mixed some generic stuff called honcho plus from my local seed and fertilizer dealer, and it's been about 5 days, and the grass seems to still be growing as well as the other grass. You said it took a week, so I suppose I need to be more patient; I'm just wondering if it takes longer with cooler night temperatures.

End of August, so it was still pretty hot. It took about 10 days before it showed much. The patches of pure grass browned a lot faster than the patches of weeds. Some weeds were hardly touched. I hit them again with a second dose. Some of the plot was still a bit green when I finally just tilled it all up. I'm wondering if I should've hit it with Crossbow -- the more potent stuff that I've heard some people talking about on the board. The seed is coming up beautifully now, about 3 weeks after putting it down.

As you're thinking, I'd agree that the cooler temps are probably slowing things down a bit as well.

I'd give it a few more days before worrying too much.

 

[jnjpream]

I've been thinking about doing this before I get ready to put some seed & sod down on a new yard. Right now all I have is weeds.

My biggest worry about using it before planting is how long do I have to wait before tilling and seeding/sodding to ensure the new stuff isn't damaged?

Also, I tried some of the pre-mixed Roundup along the drive etc, and it didn't seem to do anything to the weeds at all.. Afterwords I could have sworn I was a sign hanging from one of the weeds that said "Yum! More please!"

Jeff

 

[moeh1]

Would love to have a chemist chime in. I've been told and noticed that there are 2 diffferent active ingredients in various weedkillers. One is the glyophosate, don't remember the other. I've sprayed with a combo of both and it was very effective the one time I did.
If you have a farmer in the area, they often have larger spray rigs set up of weedkilling before plowing. Might be the easiest/cheapest solution.

 

[Lindy]

My biggest worry about using it before planting is how long do I have to wait before tilling and seeding/sodding to ensure the new stuff isn't damaged?

Easy answer: The Roundup won't hurt the new seed or sod you put down. It loses its ability to kill after it hits the soil or is soaked up in existing green stuff. It will only kill the current green stuff. It doesn't stop seeds from germinating or sod from growing (unless you spray Roundup directly on the new sod of course).

In more practical terms: You should wait to till/seed until the chemical has done its job. Usually a week or two or three is enough time for the weeds to die and dry up. It's a lot easier to till the old stuff in when it's dead and decomposing. I'd also consider scalping the dead weeds with your mower and raking it off. This seemed to make tilling/seeding a lot easier for me.

Re: the strength of pre-mixed Roundup -- I've never tried it. I buy concentrated Roundup Max, and mix it fairly stiff. It works great on most grasses in my region, but not quite as effectively on wild strawberries and some of the tougher weeds we get. Somebody suggested using "Crossbow" for some of the tougher weeds and ivys.