MikePA
Super Moderator
Everyone who buys products made in China has a good reason for doing so. It's just a bit hypocritical to bemoan the movement of jobs overseas then buy products made there.
Just Plain Wrong !
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Nat
Platinum Member
All thru this thread I keep hearing how the company puts profit before anything else. LMTC said what I think a lot better than I could have. Now while we are on this subject why don't we think about the fact, yes fact not opinion that the US taxes business much higher that anywhere else in the whole wide world. All of one political party wants to tax business and cut taxes on people while the other wants to cut taxes for business and let the people pay the taxes. It at first sounds good to let the business pay the Lions share of the taxes and give tax breaks to the lower income folks doesn't it?
Well guess what happens when you do that, VG moves to china and the jobs VG provided go with them. Now who is going to pay those taxes?
Off my soapbox for now. Later, Nat
Well guess what happens when you do that, VG moves to china and the jobs VG provided go with them. Now who is going to pay those taxes?
Off my soapbox for now. Later, Nat
Shimon
Platinum Member
A lot of their stuff is going down in quality too. And a lot of the stuff is also made overseas now. Not just the Blue Point line but the actual Snap-On stuff. Take a look at the Snap-On crescent wrenches...made in Spain. Not China...but it's coming soon enough.
MBAs and accountants are running most companies now and all they care about, generally speaking, is the bottom line. Which is fine because that's what business is all about...making money. But that approach is short sighted in my opinion. If you are looking to make money over the long haul...there is more to business than the bottom line.
CinderSchnauzer
Veteran Member
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OK let's blame the MBA's and Accountants for wanting to make money. Let's blame Management / Workers for quality, or lack thereof.
Do all the consumers, who are not willing to pay the price or accept the quality of a NA made product share any blame? Is someone forcing consumers to flock to Wal-Mart or where ever to buy all this Chinese junk, causing the flow of jobs overseas?
In my view, we as consumers cannot simply blame management or the government for all these lost jobs. As long as we as consumers continue to support foreign entities with our purchase decisions, then NA jobs will continue to be lost.
Shimon
Platinum Member
You are right in saying that consumers are to blame also.
BUT, when companies like Wal-Mart come in and use their clout to force smaller business out of the market and then they jam us full of junk then they too need to shoulder the blame. Big box stores are taking over and pretty soon consumers will be forced to buy junk (and sure it may be "our" fault but I'm not accepting any responsibility...I buy quality and avoid...whenever there is a choice...made in China junk).
When companies like John Deere make cheaper mowers to compete in the under $2000 market they too are part of the problem. Sure they are just giving the consumer what he wants. But at what price? Now the market is flooded with cheaply made mowers that besmirch the John Deere name and we have long time John Deere fans and newer John Deere customers complaining about quality. Sure this is just a generalization but it's also a trend which is becoming a larger and larger problem.
I think most consumers are idiots when it comes to purchasing stuff. They go for price first and that too is part of the problem. Sorry for my crass generalization but that's the way I see it. If it wasn't true, Wal-Mart would not exist. Most people don't care about American jobs going away as long as they get a good deal. Most don't care if their Vice-Grips are made in China. I think we are in small minority in expressing our frustrations regarding this subject.
So we can blame the mob of cheap consumers but I also say blame the companies who would sacrifice their reputations of quality for a fast back. Shame on them. Even if it's what people want. Sometime what people want is not what's best for this country.
And just to set the record straight...I'm not a big fan of democracy (Winston Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government...except for everything else")...I think a benevolent tyranny would be much more efficient (although it is "utopian" in nature, unfortunately) . So go ahead and call me names.
Scooby074
Super Member
I haven't been on the Snapon truck in 3 years or so, (our local guy got out of it) but its disappointing to hear their quality is slipping.
Last tools i bought off the truck was some Mac picks to replace some broken USA made ones. Didn't realize they were made in china until i got in the shop. They were the same price as the ones i bought a couple years earlier. I dont buy Mac anymore, only go on the truck for warranty.
It looks like instead of having a modern day Boston Tea Party we are going to have to go back and reinvent the wheel. If we went to the Boston Tea party there would people left to teach us but those teachers will no longer be there if we allow ourselves to go all the way back to reinvent the wheel.
Shimon
Platinum Member
I'm still in the wrench turning business and the Snap-On guy stops by every Wednesday. Each week is more depressing than the next. I used to think that Snap-On was the last bastion of hope for America...but alas. I guess it's pathetic to put a corporation up on a pedestal but businesses are are symbols of what America can create and thus a source of pride for me.
A couple of weeks ago I bought a pneumatic cut-off tool off the Snap-On truck for $250. You can buy one at Harbor Freight for $9. Or I could have bought a Blue-Point version for $80. Why would an idiot like me spend $250 for an air powered cut off tool when I could have bought 25 cut off tools for $250 which would last me the rest of my life? My Snap-On tool won't last me the rest of my life. The answer is simple...the Snap-On tool was made in the USA and if you felt it and used it you would see that it exudes quality. I have used those Harbor Freight tools and they work ok but and get the job done and would probably serve me well (as they do for a lot of people)...but given the choice I want to buy only USA quality tools. I don't buy USA just for the sake of USA stuff...I buy quality made in the USA stuff. It's getting harder and harder.
I'm looking for an oscillating fan to put over our woodstove to distribute the heat. Found a nice metal Hunter fan (Tennessee, USA company) but the fan is made in China. I'll keep looking.
Walmart cannot FORCE a smaller business out of the market...the CONSUMER does that by not buying the smaller business' product, but rather choosing the less expensive product from some where else. If everyone was going to their local small hardware and buying only US made vise-grips, Walmart would carry US made vise grips and stop carrying the Chinese product. But that doesn't happen....enough CONSUMERS go to Walmart and but the less expensive version and eventually the pricier (even if better quality) product leaves the market. There is enough online marketing opportunity the last ten years that expensive products can be marketed online with minimal overhead....Walmart is not the only selling venue available. Ultimately consumers make the choice, and at the point they are left with what seems to be "no choice" it is primarily because they have ALREADY made their choice, and once that decision is reinforced by long term buying habits to the point where one company folds, that choice becomes somewhat permanent.
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