KL130 loader fix released.

[IXLR8]

Ed, based on my limited (AS) Mech Eng degree I think you are correct. The 'kit' will reduce some of the twisting in the loader. The 4 bolts are 'locking' the reinforcing pieces to the torque tube, on the other side from where the cracking is taking place, and taking some of the twisting load. How effective this is... I don't know. If Kioti had just not put the hole in the torque tube then there would not have been any problems. It is the location of the hole, and the underlying reinforcement that leads to a high stress area that is causing the cracking.

 

[TBDonnelly]

By stiffening the existing torque "tube" cross piece it will prevent it from twisting (stiffening by what method? The "torque tube modification" may lessen the twisting but I highly doubt it will prevent the twisting) and it is the twisting motion that caused the corner cracks. If the torque tube was breaking loose from the loader arms that would be different but the cracks have not been at those critical locations but rather in the weak area surrounding the cut out. If the whole structure is stiffened by the clamp on fix then there should be less twisting and therefore less stress on the existing cracks so they would be less likely to spread (That's the big money question). Right?

I find it hard to fathom the small flat surface area on the end of four bolts is anywhere near enough structual support to control the flex of a front end loader capable of lifting over 1000 pounds with additional flexing forces applied while moving across various terrains.

Don

 

[IslandTractor]

I find it hard to fathom the small flat surface area on the end of four bolts is anywhere near enough structual support to control the flex of a front end loader capable of lifting over 1000 pounds with additional flexing forces applied while moving across various terrains.

Don

Again, I am over my depth discussing engineering loads but I would think that the loader reinforcement/repair clamp doesn't really need to support all the load by itself. The original torque tube is doing that. The kit is just preventing the torque tube from twisting so it is adding stiffness but not supporting the whole load. I'm thinking, naively, that it would be analogous to adding a support piece at the middle of a bridge span...it doesn't support the whole load it just adds support at the weakest spot.

 

[IXLR8]

Don,
By clamping the U shaped bracket tightly against the torque box, and then bracketing the opening of the U so it can't open. When the loader is twisted, the torque box wants to twist, the U bracket then accepts some of the twisting load due to the fact that it is braced tightly against the torque box and it can't twist due to the piece closing up the U. It works... I just don't know how well and I am too lazy to remove the bracket, measure clearances and then figure out all the loading. How tightly it fits is the key to how well it works, which is why they have the 4 clamping bolts that are suppose to be tightened to a certain torque setting. Does it eliminate flex... no, does it reduce it enough to prevent the cracking... I suspect yes. If you watch most any tractor loader... it flexs no matter what they have for a torque tube... the question is how much and are there weak spots where it will crack. Kioti had a hole in the torque tube (weak spot)... STUPID idea, they had a reinforcing bracket under the hole that didn't go all the way across leaving stress points in the hole... STUPID idea. If they didn't have the hole, there would have been no issues. If they had done the reinforcing bracket properly, it would have taken the loads properly and there would have been no issues. They made 2 mistakes in this loader and it came back to haunt them/us.

 

[Gittyup]

It probably works as long as the bolts are kept at the right torque setting. I would want to know the torque settings so that I could readjust as the metal fatigues and/or the bolts vibrate loose. I'd be checking them often.

But that whole thing sure seems like quite the jerry-rig. Still think new arms for all would have been better for all. But, it's too late now. This is it.

It'll be interesting to reflect back on this in 10 years or so to see how the "fix" has worked.

 

[TBDonnelly]

There's just a lot of uncertainty, in my mind, with this "torque box modification" kit. I mean even Kioti is only willing to officially call it a "modification". Kioti is willing to warranty the torque tube for an additional 12 months. In reality who is going to remove all the bolts in another 12 months to inspect the torque tube. We're already 30 months into this debacle. Now it's going to drag on for another 12 months with the possibility of starting all over again?

Myself, at this time, I can't see incurring the transportation expense for this "torque tube modification."

Kioti has a "Product Support Manager". Instead of us here at TBN trying to reverse analyze the "torgue tube modification", I would like to invite Kioti to share with us, in whichever format Kioti would prefer, the engineering and thought processes behind the "torque tube modification". Kioti has garnered much positive press from many of our posts here at TBN and have sold many tractors as a result. I think it's time Kioti step up to the plate and communicate with us.

Don

 

[TractorLegend]

Its my opinion the kit shown is a bandaid to show some concern on the part of Kioti, but not what is good and right. Installing the newly designed loader arms on the ones deemed to be in the "defective" date range would be good business.
Kioti is merely hedging that the unknowing will be satisfied by them having done "something".
If your loader is cracked or cracking this will in no way fix it. It will cover them up. If you the owner are good with the fix-great! thats what Kioti hoped for.
I'll be happy when the arms are replaced with new design.

 

[TBDonnelly]

Kioti has a "Product Support Manager". Instead of us here at TBN trying to reverse analyze the "torgue tube modification", I would like to invite Kioti to share with us, in whichever format Kioti would prefer, the engineering and thought processes behind the "torque tube modification".
Don

I'd like to put a time frame on the invite I put out there, for KiotiUSA/Daedong/Taesung to have an opportunity to share with us the engineering thought processes of the "torque tube modification". Let's say, by next Friday September 12, 2008 if we have not heard anything from Kioti we'll go ahead & open the engineering topic back up for further discussion.

Don

 

[Gittyup]

Dont' hold your breath on that one, Don.

 

[IslandTractor]

Dont' hold your breath on that one, Don.

We've been waiting for Kioti to chime in for for than two years on this issue. They supposedly do monitor TBN according to some sources but they never never respond to anything on the forum. Can't say that I blame them as it would start a feeding frenzy if they did.

 

[TBDonnelly]

We've been waiting for Kioti to chime in for for than two years on this issue. They supposedly do monitor TBN according to some sources but they never never respond to anything on the forum. Can't say that I blame them as it would start a feeding frenzy if they did.

We want to be fair and give KiotiUSA every opportunity to respond. Kioti can chose the format. Letter, email, private mail, special envoy or even post directly here. The ball is in Kioti's court.

Don

 

[gravel13]

it would start a feeding frenzy if they did.

Kind of like blood in the water with sharks (Kiotis) around.

 

[GregMVT]

My dealer showed up last Friday morning and put the kit on!!

Greg

 

[TBDonnelly]

My dealer showed up last Friday morning and put the kit on!!

Greg

Any pictures available? Does it look the same as IXLR8/Jim's?

Don

 

[InspectorGadget]

I'm sorry, but I have read through all of the posts in this thread and I have yet to see (photo) or fail to understand exactly where they are or how severe these "cracks" are.
Can someone post a picture of these "cracks"?
I did see the fix photo that someone posted, but that is not much help for those of us looking to find any known defects in our FEL.
Thanks C-AY RL

 

[Dmace]

I'm sorry, but I have read through all of the posts in this thread and I have yet to see (photo) or fail to understand exactly where they are or how severe these "cracks" are.
Can someone post a picture of these "cracks"?
I did see the fix photo that someone posted, but that is not much help for those of us looking to find any known defects in our FEL.
Thanks C-AY RL

Read up on this thread and there are plenty of pictures in it.

Like this one:

I personally don't feel it's "severe" at all and is just cosmetic like the engineers say. I have the cross tube fix in place and 100hrs later and hundreds of thousands of pounds of gravel, rocks, well tiles, snow and whatever else I could lift later and the cracks have not spread at all.

 

[IslandTractor]

Here is another photo.

 

[InspectorGadget]

Dmace & IslandTractor,
Thanks for the photos---but could you step back and show where on the loader you are shooting.
When taking documentation photos, start with an overall shot of the subject and then take sequential shots to the closeup.
The closeups are great and it appears that the cracks are more than superficial or cosmetic as someone in this fourm has suggeted.
Thanks again C-YA RL

 

[Gittyup]

If you have a CK35, it will have the cylindrical torque tube. The photos are taken on the rectangular torque tube. There would be no such location on your loader. The cracks are located in the corners of a rectangle cutout, centered on the bottom of the torque tube. From memory, I think the opening was about 12" long by about 5" wide, centered on the rectangle. If you follow the link for the old posts you'll see plenty of photos of the whole thing.

And I agree, they are not cosmetic. Eventually they'll weaken to the point of permanent twist (unlevel loader), as mine did. You can see how they were progressing over time on Island's photos. I sure hope the "fix" is a fix, but I'm skeptical.

 

[rmahlert]

Dmace & IslandTractor,
Thanks for the photos---but could you step back and show where on the loader you are shooting.
When taking documentation photos, start with an overall shot of the subject and then take sequential shots to the closeup.
The closeups are great and it appears that the cracks are more than superficial or cosmetic as someone in this fourm has suggeted.
Thanks again C-YA RL

Just wondering.. are you asking so you can check your loader? Your tag says you have the new loader design, 130B which do not have this issue. The old design has the Hydraulic lines running through the center torque brace (The middle of the frame like in the letter "H") On the back of the torque tube is an access panel for the hydraulic line. It's the four corners that are cracking in that opening.