Tiller "DARK HORSE" Tillers

/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #41  
I'm sure you're right. I know the KK's don't come any wider than 6'. I guess just wishful thinking. I COULD get a 72" tiller but the outer edges of my rear tires would likely leave a small imprint at the edge of the tilled area. I guess I could also just bring the rears in some (they are set at the widest option) but I DO like the extra stability. I don't know. Maybe I'll just get a 7' (84") tiller somewhere like C&C Machinery.

How about just trying to offset the tiller by a couple or three inches so it clearly covers the tire track. Most 3PT hitches have that sort of lateral offset capability.
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #42  
Keep in mind, the gearboxes on the KKII tillers are likely made in china, as are all the gearboxes on their finish mowers and rotary cutters.

I stopped at my local Deere dealer the other day looking at rear finish mowers, and took a gander at some of the green tractors... one that I was looking at I noticed had a Dana front axle, and right at the bottom of the data plate on the axle, there it was... Made In China.

There is nothing sacred anymore.

Pop the hood it says yanmar all over it
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #43  
I have to admit that I wouldn't even consider spending $1300 on something with no track record at all and is a complete unknown. I guess I'm a bit more conservative with my money. When I bought my PTO tiller I looked at KK tillers and considered them marginal and opted to buy a higher quality tiller. I've not regretted that decision. If the tiller in question is a knock off of what I considered marginal, I wouldn't even slow down to look at it. My idea of taking a chance on a unknown item is spending $100 or so; not $1300. Call me a tight wad, but I'll wait for other guys to spend their money on unknown implements and watch for ten years or so before I make any decision. I may miss out on a great deal every now and then, but I'm okay with that. I've seen way too many things that are sold on price alone end up being complete junk.
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #44  
I have to admit that I wouldn't even consider spending $1300 on something with no track record at all and is a complete unknown. .

I'm guessing that you would have jumped on the deal at $900 if it carried the well known Harbor Freight logo.:D

Your point is well taken but the flip side is that 1) though your inspection of the KK showed it to be marginal, the experience reported here by KK owners seems very positive, 2) the design of the dark horse is apparently identical to the KK, 3) tillers are pretty basic implements, no high tech or fancy engineering or space age steel involved, and finally 4) $900 is a lot less than $2000+ for a tiller painted green or blue or orange. Finally, while I haven't investigated TSC warranty policies etc I think buying from a national chain is different than buying from some guy selling via ebay or from his barn.

I am going to take the plunge when the dark horses get to a TSC near me. I've been looking for a 6ft tiller and don't find many used ones at less than $1200-1500. I don't want to spend $2000 plus for something that I have relatively limited use for so I'm not interested in a major brand tiller. A $900 investment for an implement from an unknown manufacturer is a risk I agree but it makes it possible for me to have one.
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers
  • Thread Starter
#45  
I have to admit that I wouldn't even consider spending $1300 on something with no track record at all and is a complete unknown. I guess I'm a bit more conservative with my money. When I bought my PTO tiller I looked at KK tillers and considered them marginal and opted to buy a higher quality tiller. I've not regretted that decision. If the tiller in question is a knock off of what I considered marginal, I wouldn't even slow down to look at it. My idea of taking a chance on a unknown item is spending $100 or so; not $1300. Call me a tight wad, but I'll wait for other guys to spend their money on unknown implements and watch for ten years or so before I make any decision. I may miss out on a great deal every now and then, but I'm okay with that. I've seen way too many things that are sold on price alone end up being complete junk.


What you consider "marginal" in the KKII tiller has proven over and over to be as reliable, as well built, and as productive as just about any tiller on the market, and at pennies on the dollar. Lots of people have passed on them because of King Kutters rep. No reason to question that logic. But, I've seen far too many high priced, over-rated pieces of junk that never could live up to the standards of a less expensive, "low self esteem" brand. My point is, price alone, be it low OR high, has very little to do with the end results in MULTITUDES of cases.

Not rushing out to buy a DARK HORSE tiller either. I'd rather wait until I see if it's as good as the KKII, even if I was looking. (There's no need however, since my KKII will outlast ME in all likelyhood) But for the guys without bottomless pockets....the ones who need to spend money as if it DOESN'T grow on a tree in the backyard, these may be the best bargain going on a pto tiller, or maybe not..... We'll see soon enough. At any rate, I'm keeping an open mind and NOT giving them a failing grade simply because it's not out of he price range of most folks.
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #46  
I was in a hurry yesterday when I posted and now see that I didn't post what intended to relate. I should have taken the time to explain that, when I bought my big tiller, I was still doing mowing and landscape work and was bidding on doing a couple of soccer fields. To be more clear, I compared the KK tiller to far heavier commercial grade tillers and, in my opinion, I thought that the KK tiller would be marginal for what I needed to do as compared to how the heavier built (and more expensive) tillers would do. Reading my previous post now I can see where it can easily be interpreted that I said that the KK tillers are not so good. That was not my intention. My fingers didn't poke the right letters to express what I was thinking on that matter.

I am a tight wad in some respects though. I have learned that I generally don't do well when I rush out and buy something with no track record. A quick 'for example' would be my first zero turn mower. I bought based on price alone and put the machine to heavy work. Let's just say I ended up not liking the mower and I'm sure it didn't like me. It seems that I'm better at sitting back and taking notes on how something performs for others and then comparing those results to other known results. Based on that known fact, I feel that I'd be better served to sit back and 'wait and see' how an unknown brand performs rather than go for the potential bargain. Make more sense?
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers
  • Thread Starter
#47  
I was in a hurry yesterday when I posted and now see that I didn't post what intended to relate. I should have taken the time to explain that, when I bought my big tiller, I was still doing mowing and landscape work and was bidding on doing a couple of soccer fields. To be more clear, I compared the KK tiller to far heavier commercial grade tillers and, in my opinion, I thought that the KK tiller would be marginal for what I needed to do as compared to how the heavier built (and more expensive) tillers would do. Reading my previous post now I can see where it can easily be interpreted that I said that the KK tillers are not so good. That was not my intention. My fingers didn't poke the right letters to express what I was thinking on that matter.

I am a tight wad in some respects though. I have learned that I generally don't do well when I rush out and buy something with no track record. A quick 'for example' would be my first zero turn mower. I bought based on price alone and put the machine to heavy work. Let's just say I ended up not liking the mower and I'm sure it didn't like me. It seems that I'm better at sitting back and taking notes on how something performs for others and then comparing those results to other known results. Based on that known fact, I feel that I'd be better served to sit back and 'wait and see' how an unknown brand performs rather than go for the potential bargain. Make more sense?


Better.....

A couple things come to mind as I read the earlier post AND this latest one. I'd be "cautious" with ANY brand, ANY model, at ANY price, when it's new to the market. Maybe MORE SO if it were relatively expensive. All things being equal, if a person has time to watch, listen and learn before jumping in the fray, there's a better chance of NOT getting burned. As far as "track records" go, my KKII got a working out far beyond what would be considered "normal" when I first bought it. My old farm was in an area where rocks outnumbered grains of dirt. I was re-doing a couple hay fields when I stumbled on to the KKII tiller at an auction. It was used, albiet ever so slightly. My thought was, if rocks will destroy a tiller, why trash an EXPENSIVE new one when I can beat this cheap-o into the ground, toss it, and not be out a small fortune. Much to my suprise, it withstood the torture of tilling a total of 48 rock infested acres, 2 times over, hooked to a 60+ hp tractor, tilling at ground speeds far above "recommended speed". From there, it's spent another 7 years of being hammered, abused, and used with more input HP than suggested. My opinion after 7+ years? There's a vast difference between inexpensive and cheap.

If I buy Widget A @ $100 and Widget B @ $500 and Widget A ends up being the equal of Widget B in performance and longevity, Widget A is the BETTER WIDGET in my estimation.

I'm an advocate of spending whatever it takes to get products that are more than adaquate for the task at hand. Any "bargain" isn't a "bargain" if it doesn't do the job and still have life left for another day. Bargains aren't always the least expensive item. By the same token, quality isn't indicated by the biggest price tag.

But back to the DARK HORSE tillers. If they prove to be "90%" of what the KKII "yellow" tillers have proven to be, I wouldn't hesitate for one second. And MAYBE soon, someone from TBN will step up to the plate and buy one. Hopefully soon, so we can quit speculating and start evaluating.

From what I'm hearing, the "mechanics" of the DARK HORSE tillers are still the very same items as were used on the yellow KKII models. (gear box(s)/drive shaft/slip clutch) Final assembly is done elswhere. No way of substanciating that at this point though.
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #48  
I am going to take the plunge when the dark horses get to a TSC near me. I've been looking for a 6ft tiller and don't find many used ones at less than $1200-1500. I don't want to spend $2000 plus for something that I have relatively limited use for so I'm not interested in a major brand tiller. A $900 investment for an implement from an unknown manufacturer is a risk I agree but it makes it possible for me to have one.
Ed, I am in the same boat you are. I stopped by my 'local' TSC, 1.4 hrs away in Scarborough ME, they don't have the Dark Horse Tiller and didn't know what I was talking about. If you find one in the New England area... please let us know.
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #49  
Ed, I am in the same boat you are. I stopped by my 'local' TSC, 1.4 hrs away in Scarborough ME, they don't have the Dark Horse Tiller and didn't know what I was talking about. If you find one in the New England area... please let us know.

They Broke ground on one in Oxford (when I drove by yesterday Concrete work was well on its way), and I hear the ink is drying on the paperwork for one for the Augusta area....I suspect they'll be breaking ground on that one shortly... I cant wait to see if this new store will have em...
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #50  
They Broke ground on one in Oxford (when I drove by yesterday Concrete work was well on its way), and I hear the ink is drying on the paperwork for one for the Augusta area....I suspect they'll be breaking ground on that one shortly... I cant wait to see if this new store will have em...

The ground work is well underway at the Augusta site, just drove by it 1/2 hour ago.
I'm headed to Skowhegan tomorrow, I'll check and see if they have any of the Dark Horse tillers.
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #51  
... If you find one in the New England area... please let us know.

There was a 5 footer at the Enfield, CT store two weeks ago when I picked up my KKII. Price on it was $999.

IIRC, it didn't look exactly like the KKII- I think some of the framing up top was a bit lighter, and I really didn't look all that close because I paid for my KKII before it arrived at the store, and I wasn't going to be the first with the Dark Horse.:)
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #52  
Muncy Pa. TSC, has tiller and 5 or 6 other dark horse pieces of equipment. They have 5 and six foot tillers, stopped in to see if they had any brush chippers. ( they didn't) has anyone seen one of the chippers? What about the price.
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #53  
Seems like the northeast will be last to see these. I was in the Swanton, VT store this morning and no Dark Horse implements.
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #54  
I'm hoping the Merrimack store in NH gets them soon. Love to get one in a no sales tax state.;)
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #55  
The ground work is well underway at the Augusta site, just drove by it 1/2 hour ago.
I'm headed to Skowhegan tomorrow, I'll check and see if they have any of the Dark Horse tillers.

Good to know...I had heard about the Augusta store from one of the Dump Truck drivers while I was riding with him....I scored BIG TIME on a few loads of Sweet Top Soil from when they grubbed out the lot here.
Hopefully they get those Dark Horse ones right off the bat and theres some "Opening Day Sales" Going on...Might just have to acquire one!
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #56  
Dark Horse implements are in the Rutland, VT store. They are also being marked down. The clerk told me they are a "test store" and when the stuff is gone, thats it. Boom poles were $50. They had two 6' tillers marked down to $900. She told me they were going to move the Dark Horse stuff out front and it wouldn't last long.
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #57  
$800.00 for the 5 footer and $900.00 for the 6 near Richmond, VA. This store has blades, boom poles, finish mowers, sub-soilers. Spoke with manager and states he has more inventory coming. If I can get 10% off, I will own a 5 foot tiller. They are sitting right beside the KK and very little difference I can see. $800 vs $1399 seems like a great deal to me.

Eddie
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #58  
I was trying to compare the two 5' tillers today at the Enfield, CT store, but unfortunately they weren't side by side. I did notice 2 things - the spline on the KK had a full coating of yellow paint, the DH had a full coating of rust. The left top support for the drive shaft running across the top was welded to the frame on the KK and bolted on the DH. The way I figure it, there's a reason for the price difference, and the KK seems fairly priced for what it is and it takes a beating, so best to go with what I know. On the other hand, the DH middle buster for 70 vs. 125 is tempting 'cause there's not much to go wrong.
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #59  
I'll gladly be your "huckleberry" and be the first to buy a 6' DH for $900 if my TSC store carried them. But, so far, I haven't seen any.
 
/ "DARK HORSE" Tillers #60  
I was trying to compare the two 5' tillers today at the Enfield, CT store, but unfortunately they weren't side by side. I did notice 2 things - the spline on the KK had a full coating of yellow paint, the DH had a full coating of rust.
Wire Wheel + Little Anti-Sieze and its no longer an issue...hey, its to be expected with the commute it had to get here :rolleyes:

The left top support for the drive shaft running across the top was welded to the frame on the KK and bolted on the DH. .
Welder, and some paint will fix that issue....if its even an issue so to speak.

The way I figure it, there's a reason for the price difference, and the KK seems fairly priced for what it is and it takes a beating, so best to go with what I know. On the other hand, the DH middle buster for 70 vs. 125 is tempting 'cause there's not much to go wrong.

Your right...9 times out of 10, the reasoning for cheaper pricing is fit & finish fall way down on the scale, Honestly they probably wouldnt even bother painting them if it werent for the sea journey they have ahead of them. I view these items as projects in of themselves... Example, I was thinking about buying one of the mini-metal lathes as a learning tool and to spin a few projects I had in mind...read sites for MONTHS about the infamous mini-lathes available from HF, Grizzly, etc.. and every site said they were VERY Good, but not good out of the box...had to un crate it and spend 2 nights cleaning everything up (Cheap Gunky Grease, etc), adjusting everything, and it works like a swiss watch now.
I can burn alot of 7018 Rod and put a real nice paint job on the DH tiller and still be ahead of the game. ESPECIALLY Considering my Garden is only 25'x35'!
 
 

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