650 shifting gears

[PoodlePimp]

When I shift the tractor into gear after I start it up it always grinds into gear. And sometimes while shifting after the tractor warms up (the tractor is completely stopped). Is something wrong or is this the norm for a 1986 tractor? Just wondering if this is a problem.

 

[arrow]

My 85 750 does the same thing. Try double clutching and then just a coax into gear instead of a hard yank.

 

[PoodlePimp]

I have double clutching,(pressing the clutch several times actually) and tried holding in the clutch for as long as 60 seconds. It still grinds, but is somewhat less. I'm just wondering if its ok or if there is a problem. It sounds like it may be the norm....

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

Which gear are you trying to shift into? It may have only a partially synchronized tranny. You may have synchromesh on the higher gears only. Try shifting into a high gear first, then shift back to 1st or reverse. It may not grind.
I am purely speculating here, but my old 81 GMC pickup was like this, ie. no synchromesh on reverse. It would grind if I didn't first put it in a synchronized gear first, then shift into reverse. Something about aligning the synchromesh gears to prevent grinding when shifting into the non-synchro gears, (before moving, of course). Something to try anyway.

 

[Soundguy]

Is your clutch adjusted correctly?

Are you having any trans input shaft seal leaks?

soundguy

 

[PoodlePimp]

No leaks on the input shaft, and the clutch is adjusted per the book with about 1/2" freeplay at the pedal.
It actually acts like it could be dragging the clutch plate when you push in the clutch.... but it's a little gear grinding to get it to stop.
This old tractor has a high and low range... and always grinds into gear from a cold start (5th gear high) I could try lo range to see if that changes anything. My impression is this tractor doesn't have syncho-anything. You always have to come to a complete stop to shift gears, and sometimes it will shift nicely without a grind. So that has me wondering... Any ideas??

 

[PoodlePimp]

OK, so I'm worried about whether or not this is bad for my transmission...

Anyway, I take a look on ebay today at a 750 thats real close to home (you can always look right???)((basically the same tractor as mine, bigger engine)) and wouldn't you know..... transmission trouble. Take a look at this!
John Deere 4 WD 750 Diesel Tractor with Loader - eBay (item 110233218207 end time Mar-19-08 20:32:38 PDT)

 

[Soundguy]

. My impression is this tractor doesn't have syncho-anything. You always have to come to a complete stop to shift gears, ...Any ideas??

Ok.. this changes a few things.. you didn't mention you were moving when doing htis.

YES.. most plain gear tractors require you to be stopped to shift... no shifting ont he fly like a car usually.

soundguy

 

[ScottAR]

My 1050 will grind a gear every so often. Nature of the beast for a collar shift trans.

 

[PoodlePimp]

The tractor is completely stopped, and it grinds gears. I even changed transmission fluid and put in the John Deere fluid just because I didn't know what was already in it (bought it used). It just worries me a little that it always grinds into gear...

 

[arrow]

I can understand why if it always does it. Does it do it in reverse as frequently. The only reason I'm saying that is because I back my tractor out to use it. It almost never grinds when I do that cold or not. That gear damage you see on that guy's tranny is exactly what would happen if he did not pay attention to that first intial grind noise and instead of backing off the shift, he shifted anyway right thru the grinding. If yours was bought second hand, the original owner may have done the same thing so you're picking up the wear factor. Use low range first and when everything gets good and warmed up, then switch to high if needed. Boy that 750 in the picture is in miserable shape inside and out.

 

[PoodlePimp]

Thanks Arrow. It doesn't do it every time... but always when going into a forward gear at the first start of the day (high range). I'm going to try low range for a change, and if that doesn't work I'll try the reverse for kicks. I might try to get into the manual over the weekend to see if it is a synchonized transmission.... if it is then there is a problem.
Ya, that 750 is in super rough shape. I think he's dreaming on that reserve price.... Based on all the rust, dented panels, wear and tear... I would say it's only worth about $500.00 if that. My 650 is pristine comopared to that!!!!!!!!!

 

[RoyJackson]

The tractor is completely stopped, and it grinds gears. I even changed transmission fluid and put in the John Deere fluid just because I didn't know what was already in it (bought it used). It just worries me a little that it always grinds into gear...

This might help...hold the clutch down...push the lever toward the gear you want, but as soon as you hear gear clash.....stop pushing (just keep a bit of pressure on the lever). Once the gears start to mesh (the clatter will stop), you can continue selecting the gear.

These collarshift transmissions are not sychronized. It does take a little finese to shift..also a little patience.

Since you've adjusted the pedal, I suspect your clutch is starting to go. You can nurse it for a while, but it wll faill sooner or later.

By the way, you aren't leaving your foot on the clutch pedal (riding the clutch) when operating the tractor, are you?

 

[ShookFarm]

Not the same tractor but, I get the same thing with my non-synchronized JD 5103 collar shift transmission. It appears my issue is where the gears mesh. I find it happens most often while clutching and holding the brake pedal in. If it grinds, I don't double clutch, just release the brake a little and it will slip into gear as the shafts rotate into alignment. This usually happens to me on an incline or if the transmission is somehow in a bind. Think about how hard it is to get an automobile out of Park if it's on a hill, all that pressure is transmitted through the drive line.

If it happens to you nearly all the time regardless of conditions, it's most likely a clutch problem. Poor shifting sometimes means a couple of different clutch or throw out bearing problems in trucks. Unless it's hydraulic..................

 

[driver444]

That's my bet... Sounds like a clutch release bearing. (throw-out bearing). And yes, it happens in trucks all the time. The bearing freezing up will give the same symptoms as if the clutch is not releasing completely. So in effect, your trying to shift gears while the tranny input shaft is turning. Also, it makes sense that it does this mostly on the first start-up. The bearing freezes up while the machine is sitting, and works itself loose as you use it. Eventually, it won't at all, and it'll grind all the time.

No matter what, (bearing or clutch) a tractor split is in the near future.

 

[PoodlePimp]

About 5 years ago (160 tractor hours) the tractor was doing the same thing, and I had it fixed at a local tractor dealer. He split the tractor and found a broken pin on I believe it was the throw out bearing arm. At any rate, same conditions...
I did a litlle trator test over the weekend, and it grinds into high range, low range, forward and reverse. When it goes into gear (either forward or reverse) I get a very subtle lurch of the tractor (about maybe an inch or two forward or back in reverse) so the clutch plate seem to be dragging on the rotating clutch assembly. There seems to be plenty of pedal for disengagement... or if you let the pedal out in gear it is nearly all the way out before the tractor will move so I am a little stumped on this one. I guess maybe a warped clutch plate would make it drag, but I haven't heard of that one before... I'm starting to wonder if the clutch is just a major weak link on this tractor... Any further tests or checks to try???
I never ride the clutch while driving. When the tractor was split 5 years ago the mechanic said the clutch looked good and did not need replacement, that was about 160 hours ago. Now what???

 

[ShookFarm]

Take it to a reputable shop or a John Deere dealer you trust. It needs to be diagnosed by someone with experience who can take it for a spin. Most likely, you need to split it to check it out.

 

[PoodlePimp]

I'm tempted to split the tractor myself, and just put in an entire new clutch plate, pressure plate, and throwout bearing. I've done a few clutches when i was a kid on chevys and fords so it can't be that hard. But what is a good way to split the tractor? I assume you need an A-frame for the forward 1/2. Anyone have any good pictures on the way that they have done it???? I have plenty of tools, just haven't done this particular task before.

 

[Soundguy]

Find a way to stabilize the front axle / kingpin.. on all the tractors i'm familiar with.. wood wedhes are driven into the axlestops.. etc.

soundguy

 

[jcassady]

When I shift the tractor into gear after I start it up it always grinds into gear. And sometimes while shifting after the tractor warms up (the tractor is completely stopped). Is something wrong or is this the norm for a 1986 tractor? Just wondering if this is a problem.

I would like to apologize for bringing back a very old thread, but I just bought an old 650 with the house I just purchased. Yesterday I went out to start it up and mow the yard for the first time and I am having he exact same issues. I started it, pushed in the clutch put it into the low range then attempted to shift into first to drive it out of the garage and it was grinding like crazy.

I let it idle for about 2 minutes and tried again but it was still grinding in every gear I try high or low range. Am I missing something? I brought the throttle down really low and slowly slipped it up into first with a little grind and it moved for me when I let the clutch out. But even with the clutch in it felt as if it was still trying to pull a bit.

Do I just need to let it run a bit longer and get things warmed up? How long? I held the clutch in for a good minute before trying once and it still wanted to grind. This is my first real tractor, until now I've only owned garden tractor/lawn mowers.

Thanks