Zero Turn Mowers

[Richard]

Been looking at them.

3 houses where I am, father in law has arthritic hips and can't ride his riding mower "properly" and has to ride it side saddle.

We're considering a ZTR. I'm trying to keep the deck width consistent at 60" All prices are rounded off for conversation.

Kubota diesel 21 hp 60" deck $10,000
Scag turbodiesel 31 hp 61" deck $15,000

Scag 61" deck, 27 hp kawasaki $8,725
Woods 60" deck, 25 hp ?? engine (forget) $7,000


I've looked at Bush Hog brand, and have brochures for Bunton, Great Dane and Country Clipper.

Upshot, I'd prefer a machine that is diesel, has hydraulically operated deck height and is 60" or greater cut.

That takes it to the Kubota or Woods (if I give up diesel). Both of those have the hydraulically operated deck height which to me, is one of the first criteria.

Forgetting any of my preferences, any comments about these brands as a whole?

My father in law has the bad hips, and the more the machine is hand operated, the better. Sadly, he's... well, hate to use this word, but a cheapskate /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. He's of the older school of keep money in bank and "make do". This causes him to approach the situation from the viewpoint of "what's the least I can spend to get something to cut with", rather than, "what's the RIGHT or BEST tool for the job...and is that an acceptable price".

Given that, (I've concluded the Kubota is probably the best tool for him, followed by the Woods with gasoline engine), I told him I'd SPLIT the price with him!! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

So, here, he can get a $10,000 machine for $5,000!!!. or as he is likely to do, a $7,000 for $3,500. Sadly, in my opinion, for $1,500 MORE outta "my" (and his) pocket, it's very worth looking at getting a diesel unit.

Ok... that's sort of where I'm coming from but know NOTHING about this type mower. I see it mowing 3 yards, let's presume each yard is 1 acre +/-. AND I have a reasonably sized field by house that I'll TRY to cut with it. It's not a cut up pasture, but then, it's not a lawn either. If we get one of these, he & I will probably both sell our riding mowers and get that garage space back.

So, who has what to say about this type mower in general and these brands specifically??? any OTHER brands out there that I'm not seeing?

I'm still doing my research.

Thanks for any thoughts/input.

Richard

 

[WVBill]

Richard: I'm sort of in the same mode of looking at ZTR's and have the same objective as your FIL - cost control if possible.

One "must have" feature for me is a flip-up mower deck to make it easy to clean underneath. I know the Country Clipper and the Walker have flip-up decks. I don't know about others.

I like the Country Clipper for the joystick control vice the traditional double-handles.

Another feature to consider is a "suspension seat" - particularly if you have any roughness in the terrain you mow or, in your FIL's case, bad hips. Most brands seem to have a suspension seat as an option.

Best of luck in your search.

 

[Knute]

You might want to take a look at the Exmarks ( http://www.exmark.com/LazerZEPS.htm ) I don't know if they have a diesel version but they're one of the most popular commercial mowers. If people use them all day every day I'd think they would be as comfortable as a mower is going to get.

John

 

[Golfgar4]

I'm not that familiar with ZTR's, although I thought I might get one once we move out of town.

My neighbor uses a Grasshopper brand for his lawn mowing part time business. It has diesel engines available, flip up front mowers, and a variety of attachments. Have you looked at these?

Good luck on your search. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Gatorboy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Both of those have the hydraulically operated deck height which to me, is one of the first criteria. )</font>

These are finish mowers, and if you are only cutting 3 lawns, why would you need to change the height at all?

I was in the lawn business for 4 years and cut 100 lawns per week and never changed the height of our mowers once.

Perhaps I'm missing something here.

 

[Richard]

Oh, no... I'm sure it's ME that is missing something /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Since I know NOTHING about these and how much you change them around, I'm in process of learning.

That said, I DO change the deck height of my rider mower couple times every time I cut my yard. Our terrain isn't golf course smooth.

All I know is with the foot lever I've seen on some of them, my father in law would NOT be able to adjust the deck. I saw that feature on the Kubota and thought it was a VERY nice touch so that ALL functions would be hand controlled.

I'd rather spend a bit more and give him TOTAL flexability and not need it, than save a bit of money and have something he can't fully use.

I've seen one brand (forget which) that had a hand controlled deck height that ought to be acceptable too.

Richard

 

[brad_oatley]

I have 2.5 acres of lawn. I bought a used Scag 60" zero turn with 500 hours on it and a 20 hp kohler gas engine, 5 years ago for 4,500 with a vac system. It has 1100 hours on it now.
For residential use, these things last forever. The gas engines are good for 1500 hours at least and the only things that can wear out on the machine itself is belts, spindles and electric clutch, all cheap repairs.
Buy a used machine with low hours. Both you and the cheapskate will be happy.
These things cut an acre in half an hour. The hours add up slowly. It's by far the most used machine I have and the best return on investment.
Good Luck.

 

[Justaplain]

Go to the seller and have your FEL get on and off one. I have bad knees etc and it [ZTR] is easier to run but can be a little tricky to get on and off with infirmities. bcs

 

[Green_in_MI]

There are lots more brands of Z-turns available. I have one the Textron Bob-cats. I have lots of "green" machines, but this one pays for itself the most of anything out in the barn.


Bob-cat Z-turn mowers

They have a diesel and an option of Kohler or Kawasaki gas engines.

 

[Richard]

I spent half of yesterday going to various brands. I saw Scag, Exmark, Grasshopper, Kubota, Woods, Great Dane...(pant pant pant) I think that's all of them

I told them all I was primarily interested in 60" cut, possibly 72 and had a preference for diesel and "what did they think"

Upshot, the Scag dealer tried to AGGRESSIVELY talk me OUT of a diesel, and the Scag is available as a diesel unit (though non on hand...hmmmm) (gotta be careful of the sales pitch)

So I was left wondering, was it his attempt to move his inventory, or was he playing straight. He told me eye to eye that his 60" unit with the water cooled Kawasaki engine would outcut his diesel unit. It would cut faster & go through rougher terrain.

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I thought it was all about torque? I thought a 31 hp diesel would/could out torque a 31 hp gas???

Right, wrong, blowing smoke up my hiney?

One reason I want the diesel (I dont DESIRE to simply spend money) is ease of general maintainence, fuel storage, power (or so I thought).

If the machine is capable (and the dealers ALL tell me they are) I'd like to be able to cut the field next to house and if it works, look at some of the other (relatively smooth) fields. The dealer flat out told me he uses his like a bush hog as long as his fields are less than knee high. Another person there (associate from different store) told me HE uses HIS even if the fields are 6 feet high. hmmm....

The Kubota salesman told me to simply have them get their machines and titles to the machines together with him for a shootout. Winner takes other mans toy. He's spouting the words out inferring he's so confident HIS diesel would smoke their machine, ANY machine, he'd be willing to bet his machine. Of course, this is the salesman and not the owner.

sigh.

Kubota dude said the diesel in the 31 hp machine is the same diesel in the B7500, bx?? and another (I honestly dont remember any of the 3, but you get gist)

so what's the skinny?

If you have a hill like I do, if it's got long grass like it does, if you are mowing UP the hill... what's gonna make it to the top with less bogging?

31 hp Kubota diesel or 31 hp liquid cooled Kawasaki?

This isn't a race per se' and I know that ALL these machines will 'do the job'. I'm just trying to sort the facts out in my head so that what ever purchase is made (if any) it's made with facts and not sales pitches.

Thanks

Richard

 

[Richard]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Go to the seller and have your FEL get on and off one. I have bad knees etc and it [ZTR] is easier to run but can be a little tricky to get on and off with infirmities. bcs )</font>

That is exactly the plan. however, I'm doing the preliminary legwork first. From what I've seen, I honestly think the Scag and Kubota would be the easiest for him to walk up on. I"ve seen him get on the Kubota and it's about a 3 step shuffle for him to do it... step on deck, plant both feet, step (and shake) to platform, plant both feet (more shake) then sit down. Once sitting, he's absolutely fine as long as his legs are crossed at the ankles.

The 2 I've seen so far that my gut says are going to be easier for him are the Scag & Kubota. Some of the others seem to have a deeper platform he has to step down into.

New update: Brother in law told him that Country Clipper approached him about being a dealer. The brochures clearly state that to be one, you must buy 3 units. The units ALSO look to have the deeper floor pan that I 'think' will be an issue (but what do I know).

Now, FIL wants to call this company and buy one wholesale because they approached his son about becoming a dealer.

It seems it's all about spending (not) the money rather than finding the best one that fits him! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif The diesel desire, is just me trying to get all the power goodies using the same fuel which I have in bulk (relative to gasoline).

Richard

 

[Bob999]

I have a Toro 62" 25HP Kohler ZTR. I chose gas over diesel becuase even though I mow about 3 acres I accumulate relatively few hours a year--50 or so-- and I didn't think the extra cost of the diesel was justified. A consideration was avoiding the cooling system maintenance on a liquid cooled machine. A second consideration when comparing to the Kubota was the unknown of a relatively new design with an "all in one" drive unit. By comparison the Toro, and most ZTR's I have looked at, use descrete components--two pumps, two wheel motors. I think this design is easier and less expensive to repair if necessary. Same with belt drive--my experience is that the belt drive system on the Toro is very reliable and durable--and I expect less expensive to repair than the drive line/gears on the Kubota.

A down side of gas engines is that they generally use more fuel and you don't generally have the alternative of buying untaxed off road fuel as you do with a diesel. Diesel engines are generally more durable but I find it hard to believe that you will face a durability issue with 3 acres +. Commercial cutters typically put 6-800 hours per year and get several years from the gas powered units. However, another way to think about it is that you can replace the 25HP gas engine with a new one for less than the price premium of the diesel.

A flip up deck would be a very desirable feature in my opinion. They make it easy to remove the blades to sharpen them and make cleaning easy. This feature is available in relatively few ZTR's

A final consideration is an articulating front wheel arrangement--that the Kubota has and the Toro does not. I did not fully understand this when I purchased. If you have uneven terrain I think an articulating front axle is very desirable--it helps keep 4 wheels on the ground rather than three in uneven terrain.

In any event I would suggest trying the unit you think you want to purchase on your terrain prior to making an irrevokable commitment to purchase the unit! Try to get typical conditions--which is likely to include some moisture. One thing about ZTR's is that they act a little like sleds in wet conditions working down a steep slope.

I presently use a Power Trac unit for my steep slopes and love it. There is a Power Trac forum on this board if you want more information, or you can to the Power Trac web site where you can see pictures of the units.

 

[Glenn9643]

Richard,

Maybe this forum will be of some assistance. There's a lot of conversation by people in the lawn care business.
http://www.lawnsite.com/

Good luck with your decision.

Glenn

 

[Bird]

Richard, I don't know much about the ZTRs, but now that we're back in the city, there are commercial lawn care trucks, trailers, and equipment everywhere, and it seems to me that perhaps the most popular one around is the Scag Turf Tiger, but it also appears that the Kubota is gaining on them. No actual count; just my visual observations and impression.

 

[gollum]

Richard,

Just went thru that whole wonderful experience /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif anyway, I looked at about every z known to man. One that you should take a look at is made by Ferris. It's bult like a tank, has indepent suspension on each wheel, (what a smooth ride), a diesel engine is availible for it--made by Cat. I can't remember if it has hydraulic deck lift thu. Very impressive machine. About $8500 with a gas engine (didn't price diesel). I , however, due to financial constants, bought a used Snapper(great machine so far). As far as a lift up deck, I run mine up on car ramps to hose it off and I lay on my creeper to change blades(with it up on the ramps).
Gollum

 

[wallyand]

Richard, I bought a used 60 Inch Scag from a guy going out out of the lawn care business. It is an 2001 turf tiger with the 27hp liquid cooled Kaw. Paid $4800 it had 261 hrs and a broken seat (former owner was huge). I could see where the deck height pedal could be a problem for someone with bad hips. It is waaay faster than my yanmar with finish mower, can mow in 1/3 the time as before and cuts better. It was 2 years old when puchased just for a value point. It turned into a welding project on the seat frame and then an upholstery project.