You've warped me!

[Spiffy]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

Just realized that I gave plenty of history, but still haven't described the goals! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Actually, didn't you just replace a pump JJ? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

The Valve:
1. Makes the front and rear hydraulics independantly controlled instead of parrallel (meaning you have to unplug any front attachments to use the BH and vice-versa)
2. Makes attachments reversable.
3. Allows for soft starting and hard stopping, vice versa, any combination, or anything inbetween. The current setup always has hard start and soft stop.

The triple pump:
1. Splits up the steering and the lift.
2. The large section has 50% more displacement, so I can run high volume/low pressure attachments if I want (the down side being for PT attachments I'll have to meter off some volume or run at half throttle - but I'll have spare spool on the triple valve anyway, not to mention a spare ball valve)
3. My existing pump becomes a spare
4. Since the PB port of the steering no longer needs to go to the lift valves, I can run it to a fine [3micron] filter instead (which I forgot to order, but that can be a later project).

So, it all does have some reasoning, but that doesn't mean that I'm not nuts or that I didn't mismeasure and something will decide not to fit. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<font color="red"> edit: better described valve stopping. </font>

 

[J_J]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

Yes, I did replace the PTO pump, but it had the same displacement as the old pump. I would have went to a bigger pump, but they didn't leave me any room. There is only 1/4 in from the back of the pump to the hydraulic oil tank.

Have you figured out how much extra HP it's going to take to run the larger pump. There is a hydraulic calculator on the Surplus Hydraulics web site.

For instance, 10 gpm at 2500 psi requires 17.12 hp
50 % more at 15 gpm at 2500 psi requires 25.68 hp

 

[Spiffy]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

Thanks! Yes, I ran the numbers over and over before I bought it; I really would have loved to had 1 size smaller (25% larger the original), but they only had this size and it's easier to bleed off some volume (yes, a slight HP loss and oil heat generation) to regulate pressure down, than create more volume than the pump has!

The SurplusCenter calculator is really slick; pump efficiency is part of it's equation. Actually, lots of great information on that page (the hose ft/min ratings etc.)! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anway the pump is rated up to 65HP (agreeing with the calculations too), but PTs pressure rating was 3000 (relief set to 3200 according to my books, I think somebody noted they're now at 2800?); the valve's relief will be 3050 so it'd max out at 75% rated pressure and my RPMs will put out 85% rated volume; right back into the 45HP rating. However, that allows no HP just to run the 3 other pumps (4 counting charge pressure) - not to mention do anything with them; but I don't intend to run high pressure/high volume on anything anyway. Ideally, I'll be able to run something like the stump cutter at half to 3/4 throttle consuming 20HP.

Of course, I'll really end up learning the torque curve on that Deutz. By coincidence, I think the relief was sticking "closed" before it stuck "open" and I was able to draw more power than when I set it correctly and had the flow meter reading exactly rated flow and PSI.

Finally, PT used hoses right at the small end of my calculations even for the original rated GPM, so I had to up size some of them; the runs to the rear and bucket might be prudent too, but I didn't order new ones.

 

[J_J]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

You appear to be on track, keep up the good work. About the only thing you can do if you run out of hp is to throttle back on something. When using the backhoe for instance, nothing else is moving, so you can throttle up to maximum. Same with stump grinding, run the engine at max. Bushhoging, climbing hills, and steering will eat up a lot if not all available hp.

 

[Spiffy]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

Some assembly required! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif The parts on the floor all came out of one bag; notice there are two more lever assemblies still in the bag. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Not quite expecting that one, but it beats the heck out of the rest of it that I am expecting. I held it up to the machine, it will fit; that cover will give me some issues, but I knew I'd need to cut it for the levers anyway. Now I'm thinking one large slot instead of holes.

Haven't unpacked the pump yet; hope it looks as good, and fits even better than the valve!

 

[MossRoad]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

For scale, how big are those floor tiles?

 

[Spiffy]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

<font color="blue"> For scale, how big are those floor tiles? </font>

7.25" CTC or 7" each square.

Assembled; it looks pretty good. The paint on the plastic caps peals off and gets all over, but I doubt enough got into the valve to hurt anything. If anything did get hurt, it would have been while I was tapping the roll-pin into the spool; should have used a press instead, but that'd been to obvious. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

Assembled.

 

[Spiffy]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

This really tells the story. The dentened postions are sweet! I have not idea why, but between having the control of a mechanical valve and the feeling when you it "kick" into the detent; the whole thing just feels "macho" compared to the switch....and I haven't even put the hoses on yet! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It would have been nice if it was a bit smaller, like the 2 spool I was originally looking at (which was smaller in general too; not just the 1 less spool), but I couldn't pass the bargain on this one; especially knowing if I did, I'd want the 3rd spool sometime.

Notice it is much larger than PT's, but this one needs twice the flow rate as the loader, so I don't think there is one of that size that could have worked.

Afraid the cowling might have to disappear altogether, but I'm open to suggestions! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

Old pump; new pump
One pump; two pump! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

Plenty of room! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

However, it looks like I will pay the price when routing the hoses. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

I think it looks even better than the original! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif But again, the hosing may put me in knots.

Yes, that is store-string holding up the loose hose ends. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

Take 2

 

[Spiffy]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

Finally got a chance to get the holes drilled for the valve (one of those projects I knew would take 4 hands). By the time I got the inlet and exit (couldn't find the fitting I wanted there so that was 1/2" too) hoses on, it was tight, but looks nice!

The hoses are being a pain, but I expected that; PT had it way too easy using 1/4 and 3/8. 1/2 and 3/4 doesn't cooperate nearly as well, but I just couldn't put 25GPM through 3/8" hose. Actually, I'm looking at some funky configurations for the inlet to.

Sorry, pajoube, I forgot the pictures tonight. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif But I have some more hoses to go anyway.

 

[pajoube]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
PJ

 

[Spiffy]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

It's alive, it's alive!!!!

Actually, only one part of the two part project: I got thinking about JJ's point about the wheel motors consuming a fair amount of power too, so between having a fits with the inlet fittings (I didn't wan't to starve it) and still mulling the power issue, I thought I better play with it some more using the tiller and power rake (on the existing pump) before I continue with the larger one.

Now the good news! The valve makes it a whole new machine! Flip the right lever ON for BH work (I think reverse on the spool works fine too, but it feels like the BH vavle only allows forward flow). Flip right lever off (no more disconnecting hoses /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif ) and use the left for the front: now I have off (nothing spins!!! soooo nice), on (variable speed), reverse (variable speed) and "free".

The only down sides: the 1/2" (and 3/4 on the return) hoses made things tight, but that particular valve did that anyway (25GPM so physically large, not to mention an unneccessary middle spool, and the long handle brackets on it) and I won't be able to put the cover on, but I'm thinking a piece of rubber will fit the contours fine and look really nice in its place.

Oh, I did put the overpressure block back (for the charge pump and the lift pump reliefs) instead of using "inline" reliefs, but am not using it for the PTO (the valve has 3050psi relief); the annoying bracket did not get to go back though! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Re: You\'ve warped me!

I've been dreaming all sorts of uses the last couple days. I have some gravel from the driveway (yes I got too agressive moving snow /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif ) lying too close the house for the power rake [no room to come at it sideways like it's meant to be used], but think I can pull it away using the rake in reverse really slow.

Now, who's next?! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Seriously, I think it would be a piece of cake on a (1)4XX.