Your last generator Maintenance Run

[3930dave]

Good discussion on load management....

..... a while back (6 months ?) here, somebody posted a dedicated controller unit (3'rd party) that looked pretty capable, and seemed reasonable cost wise...... not sure if my eyelids will stay open long enough to go find it tonight, but it's great to see all sorts of relatively low cost options out there. (MEP buildup in FL ?).

Aside from cost (big generator) mitigation, the other thing I like with these automatic management options is you can address your needs by prioritizing, and hopefully avoid under-loading a high capacity generator most of the time as the alternative.

Rgds, D.

 

[LittleBill21]

I am thinking about replacing the venerable Craftsman 3500w generator with an EM5000 Honda. I am very fond of the old machine, which is 100% reliable and easy to start, hot or cold. But under 50 - 75% load it uses gas like there was a hole in the tank. I think I need a more modern machine.

inverters use just as much gas at full load, modern engines are not going to magically make you 30% more fuel efficient, the efficiency is generally at low load. if efficiency is a huge concern for you, might want to look at 1800 rpm diesel engine models

 

[RoyKing]

The large Honda inverter gives the best hours of run time, a friend runs a food truck so his loads vary a lot and he puts lots of hours on it. Super quiet.

 

[daugen]

I'm guessing that larger Honda has a fuel injected GX390 and perhaps the FI part, like it does on big zero turns, might save some gas.
4500 dollar generator, wow, but if affordable, seems to be the one to get.
Lot of sales managers at Honda and Generac are planning some big vacations right about now...

Has anyone come up with a nice handy dandy formula for this many amps used equals this much gasoline consumption per hour? Would be interesting to compare that to propane and diesel.

I'd also be interested in knowing how well regulated the output power is. My understanding was that was an advantage of inverter design.
Remember when they used to rate stereo amplifiers at 1 percent THD at 20-20,000 hz? Then ratings were fiddled with, lot of peak watts showing up, just
like peak watts in generators. We get very little good comparative information on the electrical end of the generator, and I think most of us are
pretty ignorant about the whole area. They state specs at 5 % or lower, but maybe we should have 3 percent...at issue is who knows?

Try finding a generator marketing piece that ever states who makes the electrical end. Like touting you have a GE or Siemens component, some
brand name you hopefully can depend upon. Simply doesn't exist in my reading. Northern Tools seems to imply they have very tight control over their components, but
I bet a lot of their equipment is only assembled here due to the economies of shipping. But at least I can depend upon Northern Tools, who makes a great line of generators, which are not low end pieces but at least middle to upper, I can depend upon them to put test equipment on each piece after it has been dropped several times at the dock.

Though my little yellow Champion came in a beautiful shipping box and started right up. Other than HZ, there is nothing I can test on it, 99+ percent of us don't have scopes or adequate measuring/testing equipment to prove electrical performance. We also know don't overload our gens, so that helps the manufacturer perhaps get by with less than promised. My concern is the waveform, though my big UPS will regulate it before my office gear gets to it.

Since most of us plug lights, electronics and some form of compressor equipment/fridge/freezer/hvac into these gens, I would think a cleaner output would be a marketing
plus. Clearly it isn't... What you see is Peak Watts in big letters. And then the fine print taketh away...

Does UL, CE, or other regulatory bodies require some QC testing of units being sold? Make sure the performance claims are real?
Who is testing the exhaust to make sure it meets California air quality requirements, which seems often to be an oxymoron.

when engines went to OHV, didn't gas consumption decrease?
I think EFI is the next big thing, though it's not new, just very expensive to engineer into engine apparently.
Speaking of maintenance, maintaining your generator's Fuel Injection system. Dave, coming at you...
E-O premium and Sea Foam keep me going. Only thing other than motor oil I can control.

 

[grsthegreat]

Using frequency seems like a really odd way to measure load. That would seem to imply that the genset is already maxed out if it's going to slow down. It should never get to that point with your typical continuous/surge ratings of most sets, especially consumer oriented. I wouldn't like to run my sets at max value, even if they are rated for it. Then of course, I also need to allow for water pump start up.

I dont understand your logic. These generators ramp up and down to maintain 60 HZ. thats how they operate. So if the frequency drops to say 55 HZ, then the load shed kicks out the load. 5 minutes later it tries to restart the load. Most houses dont need this option if they have gas heat and gas water heater. where it comes in handy is on all electric houses.

 

[Industrial Toys]

It's an ingenious and simple approach. But I see it as taking advantage of a characteristic to achieve something, when it's kind of a poor mans way of doing it.

Kind of a related question, but are the loads staggered in your description. There would be no point in trying to re-apply too much load/s again and again.

If I run a 1800rpm 7.5 K Onan Diesel set at half load, and my water pump kicks in, it will probably reduce the frequency for a split second. Doesn't mean, I want stuff shed. Also, the set does not have a very sophisticated governor, just the one (simple spring) on the pump, and I'm sure from no load to full load it will vary by a couple of cycles which doesn't concern me in the least.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

Has anyone come up with a nice handy dandy formula for this many amps used equals this much gasoline consumption per hour?

Way, WAy, WAY more than the juice flowing from your wall socket; I know that much.

 

[daugen]

Way, WAy, WAY more than the juice flowing from your wall socket; I know that much.

am trying to come up with a measurable repeatable way of comparing unit efficiencies.
Reminds me of ink jet printers, have to compare cost per page.
I'd like that kind of efficiency comparison done between units.
For every amp produced over a six hour usage, how much fuel does the generator need to accomplish that, and have a handy dandy
multiplier in there for calculate your own.

Ignoring longevity, I'm guessing propane -LNG is best, then diesel, then gasoline, then...which kind of gasoline, regular or efi?
Most efficient and most ecological of course are not always the same.

This is the kind of testing that Consumer Reports used to do, granted not always successfully.
Who makes the most efficient generator, the one with the lowest or close to lowest cost per watts produced over say a ten year period, cost of maintenance being
a comparative stat. Perhaps energy efficient badges like they give air conditioners or refrigerators, or most electric appliances.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

It is a VERY difficult equation to formulate due to almost unlimited variables.
The best that you can do is evaluate a given generator, it's size and efficiency, at 0% load, 10%, 20%, 30%, etc....
Unfortunately, at least in our usage, 3 hours in the am and 4 hours in the evening, the loads vary from hour to hour and day to day.
Comparing your printer example:
If, when you turned your printer on, it started printing and using ink at a steady rate even though no paper was passing through it, until you actually sent a document to have printed, and eventually ran out of ink; THAT is how efficient generators are.
The printer sets idle and uses ink ONLY on demand. You pay for the ink you use.
Same with the wall socket.
Generators, while very handy and useful are VERY inefficient, compared to the grid.

 

[grsthegreat]

It's an ingenious and simple approach. But I see it as taking advantage of a characteristic to achieve something, when it's kind of a poor mans way of doing it.

Kind of a related question, but are the loads staggered in your description. There would be no point in trying to re-apply too much load/s again and again.

If I run a 1800rpm 7.5 K Onan Diesel set at half load, and my water pump kicks in, it will probably reduce the frequency for a split second. Doesn't mean, I want stuff shed. Also, the set does not have a very sophisticated governor, just the one (simple spring) on the pump, and I'm sure from no load to full load it will vary by a couple of cycles which doesn't concern me in the least.

yes you set the dip switches 1-8. each setting ads 15 seconds to restart