Your last generator Maintenance Run

[check]

Speaking of maintenance, we are due for our annual maintenance on our Kohler 17 kW automatic standby generator, but there is another issue.

We had a multi-day how are outage, and of course the generator ran the whole time, but it seemed to use up a good litre of oil every couple of days. Fortunately, it has an automatic shut down feature if the oil gets too low, but it seems to me that we are consuming more oil than we should. Why would the lubricant be used up so fast?

 

[3930dave]

I read an auto magazine article that said a small company like Subaru was having real engineering issues trying to stay current in the auto world with safety tech, plus maintain the small engine market. Since small engines don't change a lot, must have been they just weren't making enough money on them. I kind of got the impression they felt they didn't want to be a jack of all trades and master of none. So they cut their product line.

The race to the bottom, $ wise, probably was a big factor. I'd also guess this is a bit of a peek over the horizon, time-wise..... small engines are probably going to be changing a lot in the not too distant future, and Suby didn't want to deal with the engineering and validation cycles that would mean....

Just a guess..... but even 49cc scooters are now fuel injected......

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Speaking of maintenance, we are due for our annual maintenance on our Kohler 17 kW automatic standby generator, but there is another issue.

We had a multi-day how are outage, and of course the generator ran the whole time, but it seemed to use up a good litre of oil every couple of days. Fortunately, it has an automatic shut down feature if the oil gets too low, but it seems to me that we are consuming more oil than we should. Why would the lubricant be used up so fast?

grs may know the factory "fault" limit for consumption/time..... manufacturers like to keep that # high, for obvious reasons....... some modern AND relatively expensive vehicles have what I consider to be crazy high "normal" levels of oil consumption - a modern 2 stroke may actually use less oil !

Other than an internal or PCV issue, I think of thermal mgmt...... ventilation not blocked, fans functioning, that sort of thing. Olde air-cooled engines often suggested something like a straight 30 for high ambients... but that's old-day stuff, and obviously not suited to year-round use up here.

Does that unit have an oil-cooler ? I think I posted it here not long ago, but I came across a reference to air-cooled Bugs needing conventional oil for heat transfer reasons. I like synthetics, and have used them for a long time..... but that heat-xfer issue has been nagging at me (just techknowledge wise....) ever since a really smart mechanic/racer I know mentioned it.....

I suspect these units will use some oil, esp. on extended high-temperature runs...... once the oil-temp is really high, then the good NOAK #'s (evaporation/volatility) in a good synthetic will help.

All that rambling over my morning coffee begs the question.... What got used for oil last time ? If it was just a basic conventional oil, that amount of burn-off may have been related to the oil choice.

If 10W30 can cover your ambient range.... Amsoil had a small engine 10W30 that also hit straight 30 viscosity specs.... lemme see if it's still around.....

AMSOIL 1W-3 Synthetic Small Engine Oil

^ that appears to be how they market it now (I have an older bottle or 2 around). It does have a -40C Pour Point.

Rgds, D.

 

[daugen]

The race to the bottom, $ wise, probably was a big factor. I'd also guess this is a bit of a peek over the horizon, time-wise..... small engines are probably going to be changing a lot in the not too distant future, and Suby didn't want to deal with the engineering and validation cycles that would mean....

Just a guess..... but even 49cc scooters are now fuel injected......

Rgds, D.

so is my single cylinder 16hp engine that to my lack of amusement is not even listed on their website.
one of those designed for the application engines I think, in this case stuck onto a big cvt box. Hard to tell where the engine starts
and stops, hidden under things.

Kohler, Honda, Briggs and Kawasaki all make efi engines for the zero turn market.
But I think no one but Honda, and their i390 engine is a rare bird to find, makes small efi engines under about 15hp.
Which is why the engine in my Kubota is so odd; don't believe it has any other application.
Sure keeps you in bed with Kubota for parts.

Now that Subaru has stopped making small engines, I wonder what Kubota is putting in the latest model of my UTV, the 400.
I bet they bought the rights to this engine and just paint it orange now. But if anyone is a Subie expert, I'm all ears.

I always wondered about oil consumption too like check. But i stopped wondering because the Generac just doesn't seem to use any, even after days of running. Always thought they must have spec'd really good oil rings on their pistons. Or a double set.
And since others have recommended running 5W-30 synthetic instead of my go to 10W-30, I admit lingering old school
concern over whether the "thinner" oil will burn off/away faster. Wive's tale?

 

[ultrarunner]

I read an auto magazine article that said a small company like Subaru was having real engineering issues trying to stay current in the auto world with safety tech, plus maintain the small engine market. Since small engines don't change a lot, must have been they just weren't making enough money on them. I kind of got the impression they felt they didn't want to be a jack of all trades and master of none. So they cut their product line.

Often Honda was the only manufacturer making engines allowed to be sold in California within a product group.

I would see something interesting and learn it could not be sold in California... for awhile... Honda would have two models... one CARB certified and one not.

 

[3930dave]

so is my single cylinder 16hp engine that to my lack of amusement is not even listed on their website.
one of those designed for the application engines I think, in this case stuck onto a big cvt box. Hard to tell where the engine starts
and stops, hidden under things.

Kohler, Honda, Briggs and Kawasaki all make efi engines for the zero turn market.
But I think no one but Honda, and their i390 engine is a rare bird to find, makes small efi engines under about 15hp.
Which is why the engine in my Kubota is so odd; don't believe it has any other application.
Sure keeps you in bed with Kubota for parts.

Now that Subaru has stopped making small engines, I wonder what Kubota is putting in the latest model of my UTV, the 400.
I bet they bought the rights to this engine and just paint it orange now. But if anyone is a Subie expert, I'm all ears.

I always wondered about oil consumption too like check. But i stopped wondering because the Generac just doesn't seem to use any, even after days of running. Always thought they must have spec'd really good oil rings on their pistons. Or a double set.
And since others have recommended running 5W-30 synthetic instead of my go to 10W-30, I admit lingering old school
concern over whether the "thinner" oil will burn off/away faster. Wive's tale?

FI tends to be larger gas generators at the moment.... the one I can think of is Honda's EU7000 @ 389cc.

I know of a farmer who complained about the oil consumption on his JD Ag tractor from day one, new..... JD wouldn't do anything, so once it was out of warranty, he took it to a known independent tractor shop.... turns out, one or more rings had never been installed at the factory.... I happened by that shop, the day before the JD regional rep was due to come in.....

Anything is possible, but mostly today (outside of road going gas engines) I expect fairly low/negligible oil consumption with modern engines.

Way back, oils were much simpler, and didn't perform as well as today's ones do...... then, pretty much your only choice was to bump up the viscosity, to deal with consumption.

I tend to go with what viscosity the engine manufacturer specs for their engine, at my ambient temperatures. Can't see an issue with a good 10W30 down your way.

Today, I'd say burn-off relates much more to the oils NOACK performance. To meet tests like Dexos, there is an upper limit to the % burn-off that can happen in the test. That test has probably been around for a while, but once OLMs on cars were taking people out to 10,000mile+ intervals, the car companies decided they needed to get serious about upgrading oil specs...... too many cars in places like Phoenix, Dallas.... were coming in with 5% on the OLM, and very little oil left in the crankcase.

Noack volatility test - Wikipedia

All that said, today you could have a 5W30 with great NOACK performance show less consumption in the same engine that with a low-spec 10W30 went through more oil.

I think it was LD1 who is replacing a low-hour big Kubota engine in his tractor, after running out of oil. He said the same thing I've thought for a longgggg time.... why does a $300 generator have low-oil shutdown, but most much more expensive equipment does not ?

Let us know how things go Check, but for now, be glad your oil-shutdown circuit is there !

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Often Honda was the only manufacturer making engines allowed to be sold in California within a product group.

I would see something interesting and learn it could not be sold in California... for awhile... Honda would have two models... one CARB certified and one not.

IIRC, even Harbor Freight's Predator line usually has most engine sizes with dual SKU's, only one is Cali eligible.

Rgds, D.

 

[grsthegreat]

FI tends to be larger gas generators at the moment.... the one I can think of is Honda's EU7000 @ 389cc.

I know of a farmer who complained about the oil consumption on his JD Ag tractor from day one, new..... JD wouldn't do anything, so once it was out of warranty, he took it to a known independent tractor shop.... turns out, one or more rings had never been installed at the factory.... I happened by that shop, the day before the JD regional rep was due to come in.....

Anything is possible, but mostly today (outside of road going gas engines) I expect fairly low/negligible oil consumption with modern engines.

Way back, oils were much simpler, and didn't perform as well as today's ones do...... then, pretty much your only choice was to bump up the viscosity, to deal with consumption.

I tend to go with what viscosity the engine manufacturer specs for their engine, at my ambient temperatures. Can't see an issue with a good 10W30 down your way.

Today, I'd say burn-off relates much more to the oils NOACK performance. To meet tests like Dexos, there is an upper limit to the % burn-off that can happen in the test. That test has probably been around for a while, but once OLMs on cars were taking people out to 10,000mile+ intervals, the car companies decided they needed to get serious about upgrading oil specs...... too many cars in places like Phoenix, Dallas.... were coming in with 5% on the OLM, and very little oil left in the crankcase.

Noack volatility test - Wikipedia

All that said, today you could have a 5W30 with great NOACK performance show less consumption in the same engine that with a low-spec 10W30 went through more oil.

I think it was LD1 who is replacing a low-hour big Kubota engine in his tractor, after running out of oil. He said the same thing I've thought for a longgggg time.... why does a $300 generator have low-oil shutdown, but most much more expensive equipment does not ?

Let us know how things go Check, but for now, be glad your oil-shutdown circuit is there !

Rgds, D.

the generac generator doesn't actually have a low oil level shutdown, rather it has a low oil pressure shutdown switch. its a $30 part. all engines should have one i would think.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I'm guessing that Kohler is a gas engine, not diesel. Wouldn't basically any lawn mower engine screaming away, full tilt at 3600, for days, use oil?

In 48 hours, an engine doing 3600 would make more than ten million revolutions!

 

[3930dave]

the generac generator doesn't actually have a low oil level shutdown, rather it has a low oil pressure shutdown switch. its a $30 part. all engines should have one i would think.

Good clarification grs, I should have been more clear....... and I agree totally..... why don't cars and trucks (the second most expensive thing most people own) have them ?

Any thoughts on how typical that Kohler consumption above is ?

Rgds, D.