YM186 versus YM187

[rScotty]

I'm looking to buy a small vintage Yanmar (see Wanted to buy: small 4wd US Yanmar)
and there is a YM186 that has come up for sale not too far away.

Can someone remind me what the changes were between the 186 & 187 models?

I think I remember something about a wheelbase change, powershift location & # of gears, and maybe a change to the 186's optional power steering seals or limits.....but not sure of any of the above. It's has been a few years since these were new.

Anyone really up on these models?
Thanks,
rScotty

 

[jerrybob]

Check this site out.....lots of info.....

TractorData.com - Yanmar tractors sorted by model

 

[California]

What I recall reading - I'm not sure of any of this - was that 187 has a slightly longer wheelbase to allow a different belly mower. I think this extra length improves the operator's legroom which is a big improvement - it is inconvenient to dismount my 186D with such a cramped space. And its footboards are small; impossible to have two feet on one, also too far forward of the seat making it difficult to stand up to look at the loader. If the 187 has any more legroom that would be an improvement.

I read the transmission was improved. 186's transmission is already ideal re performance, I'm not sure what they did. Maybe they reduced the gear whine in 3rd range, or made the shifts less abrupt?

186 came with the shifter either on the transmission or on the dash. The earliest (1980) parts book shows both. Both my 186's have dash shift. I think 187 is dash only. Dash shift is a significant improvement, you can keep a grip on the steering wheel so it doesn't jump around and shift at the same time, all with left hand only, while right hand runs the loader control etc. In my use pulling a watering trailer, this lets me keep the watering wand in my right hand while steering/shifting/operating the pump's electric switch all with the left hand.

Dunno about power steering. I think it is rare on either model, and definitely unobtainable today. If the 186 you found has power steering I would jump on it in a minute.

I think YM187D spec'd larger tires.

One other consideration is most US Yanmars that old have been badly neglected and will need some restoration, hopefully nothing serious, maybe a new radiator etc. Expect to catch up the periodic maintenance that never got done by the owner who retired it from service then maybe left it out in the rain for a few years. All three of my US Yanmars look neglected, run like new. I think this is a noticeable difference from the Yanmars brought over from Japan as used-good condition.

Overall - if I found a YM186D locally, they are so rare here I would buy it immediately as soon as I checked it over. I've never heard of a 187D available in this region, in ten years of looking for one. You could always sell the 186D if you ever find a 187. I hope you have more US Yanmars available there, than we do here.

 

[rScotty]

What I recall reading - I'm not sure of any of this - was that 187 has a slightly longer wheelbase to allow a different belly mower. I think this extra length improves the operator's legroom which is a big improvement - it is inconvenient to dismount my 186D with such a cramped space. And its footboards are small; impossible to have two feet on one, also too far forward of the seat making it difficult to stand up to look at the loader. If the 187 has any more legroom that would be an improvement.

I read the transmission was improved. 186's transmission is already ideal re performance, I'm not sure what they did. Maybe they reduced the gear whine in 3rd range, or made the shifts less abrupt?

186 came with the shifter either on the transmission or on the dash. The earliest (1980) parts book shows both. Both my 186's have dash shift. I think 187 is dash only. Dash shift is a significant improvement, you can keep a grip on the steering wheel so it doesn't jump around and shift at the same time, all with left hand only, while right hand runs the loader control etc. In my use pulling a watering trailer, this lets me keep the watering wand in my right hand while steering/shifting/operating the pump's electric switch all with the left hand.

Dunno about power steering. I think it is rare on either model, and definitely unobtainable today. If the 186 you found has power steering I would jump on it in a minute.

I think YM187D spec'd larger tires.

One other consideration is most US Yanmars that old have been badly neglected and will need some restoration, hopefully nothing serious, maybe a new radiator etc. Expect to catch up the periodic maintenance that never got done by the owner who retired it from service then maybe left it out in the rain for a few years. All three of my US Yanmars look neglected, run like new. I think this is a noticeable difference from the Yanmars brought over from Japan as used-good condition.

Overall - if I found a YM186D locally, they are so rare here I would buy it immediately as soon as I checked it over. I've never heard of a 187D available in this region, in ten years of looking for one. You could always sell the 186D if you ever find a 187. I hope you have more US Yanmars available there, than we do here.

California, thanks for the detailed update. I'm a big guy with big feet, and looking for a "keeper". With that in mind, I think a YM187d is a better fit. There were a number of 187s and other of the very last USA models sold in Denver. I may find one yet in good shape. The other place where many were sold was in Wash. State - especially around Seattle.

Interesting about the shift on the dash. That makes it almost as good as a hydrostatic. My JD310 has powershift on a stalk jutting out from the left of the steering wheel. It's good - beats the heck out of a stick shift, but no hydrostatic.

As for abruptness in the power shifting, I've heard (from the dealer in the 80's) that the cure for that problem on vintage Yanmars was to replace the O-rings on all the shafts in the powershift control box that sits on top of the tranny. That makes some sense, but I've not done it....only heard of it. Good news there is that O rings come in standard sizes and I believe that the parts book gives real dimensions, but again I've not done the job myself.....though I remember looking at the exploded diagrams and thinking that it would be an interesting job to do.
If anyone has, I'm sure we'd all be interested.

Just as Vintage Yanmar was going away in the USA, my dealer brought in some compact Masseys that featured an flat open operator's platform rather than the seat & saddle that characterized most vintage tractors. I remember trying one out and thinking how comfortable it was. Lots of room. Nice tractor....no, I don't remember the model....but think it was in the just under 20 hp range. That's on my short list too.
rScotty

 

[California]

Shifting the Powershift at low throttle - maneuvering around to water new trees - I don't bother with the clutch. At heavier throttle I ease shifts with the clutch. Hopefully this reduces the shock loads that can damage the front axle etc and will let the transmission's clutch packs last longer. I never felt the shifts were excessively abrupt, I just like to reduce shock loads when possible.

The Massey you saw might be this 210, basically a Hinomoto E23, also sold here as Allis 5020 and Simplicity 9523 (TractorData covers this). I've read that owners love them for quality comparable to Yanmar, and they are heavier than Yanmar in the size category, but they aren't a good buy now because they occasionally strip the ring/pinion and Hinomoto went out of business years ago. So there are no parts available. I saw a VN reconditioned Hinomoto E23 (??) at the importer's place and it was tempting, but after researching what support was available I decided it might be an expensive mistake if anything broke. Here's an old thread with several Hinomoto owners participating.

 

[California]

Craigslist: YM187D in N. California only $4,000.

However .... he says it won't go in second or third, and no pto. I see bald rear tires.

This isn't the one for me, with these problems, but its the first one I've ever seen advertised in the San Francisco region so far as I can remember.

 

[silvertramp]

I operate with the foot throttle. I let off a bit when shifting, makes it less abrupt.

 

[California]

Roger, I have the manual for the YM186D Power Steering kit. Digital, and also an original paper copy I found on Ebay. So if you find one, this might be helpful.

But .. I'm afraid to tear into mine. It has a slight dribble/spurt out the air bleed hole when the control valve piston moves forward. Obviously it needs the o-ring on that tiny piston replaced. But I can't figure how to hold the PS assembly without damaging it while I unscrew the big end cap on the primary piston, and that cap is in the way of unscrewing the little control piston assembly.

(Also the Pitman arm etc threads are rusted solid and I can't get that apart either, with the force I've tried, but that probably just needs penetrating oil and time).

Any comments re maintenance on this PS kit welcome - Roger or anybody. Maybe it should be in a separate thread about PS, to leave this thread dedicated to Roger's search.