Insurance Yikes!! Insurance Shocker

[RWEST]

Don't know if this applies to all states or all insurance companies, but, here's something else to check out.

I'm looking at the new additions to my stable, a slightly used (320 Hrs) 6x4 Diesel Gator, and a new CX "mini-Gator", and I'm thinking, 'better call the insurance guy and have them added to my Homeowners Policy'. My other units (X595 and 955) were on the policy as "contents" of my detached garage, or so I thought. I called my agent, gave him their purchase dates, costs and told him to add them to the same policy; I'd get the serial #'s & any other paperwork to them ASAP, etc...

"Okay, oh, by the way, have you ever had any of them off your property for any reason?" he asks.
"Well, yeah, I mowed my Mom's grass a few times and cleaned the snow out of her driveway on occasion, and I could certainly envision taking either of the Gators to the garden behind Mom's house - Why?" is my reply.
"Well, then they can't be covered under your Homeowner's Policy", he says.
I'm stunned, flabbergasted, etc..
"How in the world can the fact that I mowed my Mom's grass last year keep me from getting the 595 replaced if someone steals it from my garage next week?" is one of the questions that pops out.
"It's a clause in the company's policy", he says.

I'll shorten this up a bit by saying that I got a separate reasonably priced Inland Marine policy which does cover everything, so, I don't have to sleep in the garage beside them anymore. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

In fairness to the company (which I'm not naming, because it's my own fault for not reading the fine print, and they have treated me quite well otherwise), I had switched to them from another company a few years ago - the previous company had specifically listed my equipment as "Contents", and had no such restrictions.

You might want to make a phone call to your agent.

 

[bczoom]

RWEST,

If you have some time (a lot of it), do a search on this site for "Insurance". Lots of info on the subject.

In general (as far as I know), here's how it goes with the tractor(s):
If the tractors are listed on the policy as being used to "maintain the resident premises", they're covered, but only on your land. Take them off your property and you have no insurance (unless you buy a policy for such).

The Gators are a completely different story.
Starting in (if I recall correctly) October 2003, all ATV's and UTV's need to be registered with the state of PA and get a license plate. There are a couple different kinds (refer to the PA DCNR site) but there's farm use, limited use (can't leave your land) or general use.

Now, the kickers...
Since they're now registered vehicles, they can no longer go under a homeowners policy. You have to buy a policy for the vehicles (which irritated me since I now have to title, insure and register 6 of them /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif). I always kept at least 1 ATV as being listed as "maintaining the resident premises" but with the new law, they can't do it.

Ready for the 2nd kicker...
Good luck finding insurance for the Gator. I have State Farm and to date (16 months since getting my UTV) SF corporate doesn't know how to insure them and therefore won't. I had another one of my agents (this one an independent) check with other companies and got the same answer. I finally (this week) got a company that would insure it. Send me a PM if you can't find insurance and want info.

Brian

 

[RWEST]

Hi Brian.
Whoa!! I need to license the Gator? I just talked to the dealer I got it from, and he said that only applies to ATV's, not UTV's. Where did you find that requirement <edit> was it at the DCNR site? The dealer said he's never registered a Gator yet. <end edit>
Thanks.

 

[jimg]

This is how my policy read. My agent was careful to tell me many times that once the tractor was off my property (even if it was being trailered to be fixed) it was no longer covered. At renewal time I wound up getting a mini-farm policy which covered the tractor no matter where it was and many other things which my old policy wouldn't even touch. That worked out much better in the long run.

 

[pekabu]

I kind of went through the same thing. Though my State Farm insurance agent has been really good, this was not a good experience. Couldn't figure out what to do with my tractor. Thought it might need a separate policy but wasn't really sure. I went with an inland marine policy. Neighbor down the street has State Farm and was told that under a certain weight it was covered under the House policy. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[bczoom]

R-WEST,

Check out: http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/atv/registration.aspx

Read this thread.

If your dealer hasn't been, he may want to check into it as well since they as the dealer need to file things with PA DCNR as well.

Brian

 

[dmccarty]

I went through the Insurance wringer this year as well and ended up going through the NC Farm Bureau which used an Inland Marine policy as well. I am covered for theft, collision, tree falls, vandalism, accidents, etc. What I'm not covered with and which would fall back on my home owners policy is liability.

I'm going to think about this one. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif My policy was about $200 for the year with a $1,000 deductable. I have called my house insurance company over the years about insurance for the tractor and was told I was covered. Sometimes I was told I was not covered. The last call said no coverage. My previous coverage was with JD.

I would be VERY careful and get it in very clear language that a tractor and attachments are covered by house insurance.

Later,
Dan

 

[cowboydoc]

That wording is pretty much the same wording that we have here in our ATV rules. But where in that does it say anything about licensing a utility vehicle. A UV is not an ATV.

As far as insurance goes just get a farm policy and it will cover you for any equipment that you have. The policy we have is about .03% of the total value of all of your equipment.

 

[bczoom]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( That wording is pretty much the same wording that we have here in our ATV rules. But where in that does it say anything about licensing a utility vehicle. A UV is not an ATV. )</font>

In PA, the postings about the laws/rules are very grey. I called PA DCNR and they classify UTV's as ATV's but due to their size/weight, they get a different classification (ATV-2 vs. ATV on the license plate). I believe I was one of the first to find out (behind Neil). I still don't think many UTV dealers in this state are aware of the laws (refer to the 2nd post by RWEST in this thread).

The government is always a couple years behind what comes out in the market (UTV's in this case) so they're always playing catch-up but they put the rules/regulations out in such a fashion that they think they're close. In PA... yep, by law they're required to be registered.

 

[timb]

Looks like 'used exclusively for agricultural operations' is an out for both titling and registration. Now what's their definition of 'agricultural operation'? I've been trying to figure out when a farm legally becomes 'a farm' in PA. Seems like it varies depending on who's asking, but I do have my property registered as an agricultural security zone and it is being commercially farmed (hay and forage) albeit not by me at the present. Any use of an UTV would be to maintain the property and related to those ag activities. Seems like a lot of gray area.

 

[RWEST]

Thanks for the input guys.
Brian and Neil - I'm still not seeing it. Technically, my X595 (and Craftsman garden tractor for that matter) meet DCNR's requirements. Do they need to be titled/registered/insured, too? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
It looks like this is a DCNR thing, not a Dept. of Motor Vehicles thing, right?

 

[bczoom]

RWEST,
It is DCNR, not DMV (kind of ironic that the DCNR who, in general hate off-road vehicles are in charge of registering them...).

Here's my e-mail correspondence with the DCNR which confirms it.
Read from bottom up.


----- Original Message -----
From: NR, SnowAtv
To: Brian
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:01 AM
Subject: RE: Utility Vehicle Title/Registration



That would be fine.
Thanks
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 3:31 PM
To: NR, SnowAtv
Subject: Re: Utility Vehicle Title/Registration


Karen,
I submitted my application for registration and title for this vehicle.
The application was returned with a request for proof of VIN.
My bill of sale only has the serial number on it. There was no cert. of origin.
Attached is a picture of the bill of sale that has the Serial # as well as a picture of the plate on the vehicle that has the Serial # and VIN. Can I print this picture and submit with the application (and a copy of the bill of sale) as proof of VIN?
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: NR, SnowAtv
To: Brian
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:28 PM
Subject: RE: Utility Vehicle Title/Registration


Utility vehicles used for recreational purposes are to be title and registered with DCNR. (active or limited)

Utility vehicles used for farming or business purposes do not have to be titled and is not registered by DCNR. Vehicles used for this purpose are usually exempt from sales tax.
(We will title if the owner would like to have a title for the machine, but we will not register)

Karen


-----Original Message-----
From: Brian
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:26 AM
To: snowatv@state.pa.us
Subject: Utility Vehicle Title/Registration


Good morning,

I've heard conflicting information on whether Utility Vehicles need to be titled and or registered in PA.
The vehicles I'm referring to include (but not limited to):
John Deere Gator
Kawasaki Mule
Kubota RTV
Yamaha Rhino

I've talked to some dealers and most said neither is required. On purchase, they provide only a bill of sale (no Title or Cert. of Origin). Only 1 believed registration was required but someone else in their organization took care of it so he couldn't provide details.

Looking around your web site, I've found under your glossary the following:

ATV
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/sfrmp/glossary/atv.htm
Under #3, says that "home utility vehicles" are not classified in the term of "ATV".

Off-highway vehicle
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/sfrmp/glossary/offhwyvehicle.htm
says pretty much the same thing.



Can you clarify for me? Does it depend on usage (commercial vs. private or other)?



Thanks

Brian

 

[RWEST]

Brian. I'm still not seeing how they can consider the Gator an ATV, but not my riding mower, based on the wording at those sites. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Not arguing with you, just trying to figure it all out.

 

[bczoom]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Brian. I'm still not seeing how they can consider the Gator an ATV, but not my riding mower, based on the wording at those sites. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Not arguing with you, just trying to figure it all out. )</font>

Which particular site/page are you on?
Using this page, it's talking about ATV's. There's no mention of other vehicles including (but not limited to) tractors, go-carts, minibikes, dune buggy...

Don't try to figure it out as it is the government. Our job as citizens is to comply but not understand.

 

[RWEST]

Brian -
Like I said earlier, I'm certainly not arguing with YOU - I really appreciate all the info you've furnished. I'm just very confused, and want to do the right thing, before the black DCNR choppers start circling. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I know DCNR's talking about ATV's, but, by their own definitions at the page you linked to, if my Gator's an ATV, then my lawn/garden tractor's a Class 1 (motorized, off-highway, less than 50" wide and under 800#), as are my brothers', and my X595's a Class 2. They offer no exclusions for lawn tractors or anything else, so, if it meets their criteria, it's an ATV. They can't just say "that's an ATV" and it is. (Hmmm, okay, they're the gov't so they CAN, but that doesn't make it right. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif )

Well, lawn tractors aren't (at least not yet), so, why not? Must be some other definition somewhere. Okay, digging around in DCNR's Forestry division glossary, under Off-Highway vehicles, we find an exception for Home Utility Machine, (for which I could find no further definition in the glossary). If a lawn tractor's a HUM, then, why isn't a Gator, or Mule or any of the others? That's my point. If a lawn tractor's NOT a HUM then, what is it? It's certainly motorized, off-highway, etc.., which means it's an ATV. Oops - back where we started from.

BTW - I informed the dealer I purchased the Gator from about the info you provided - he did some digging around and told me today that, as far as he knows, no J-D dealers in PA register Gators, since they're considered Home Utility Machines, just like a lawn tractor. You have a Gator, right (we're so many posts into this that I forgot)? Is your dealer the one who told you to register it? If so, is he a J-D dealer?

 

[cowboydoc]

<font color="green">Utility vehicles used for recreational purposes are to be title and registered with DCNR. (active or limited)

Utility vehicles used for farming or business purposes do not have to be titled and is not registered by DCNR. Vehicles used for this purpose are usually exempt from sales tax.
(We will title if the owner would like to have a title for the machine, but we will not register)
</font>

Yes that would be true. If you're going to have it in the woods, going in public parks, etc. then certainly you would have to have a tag. But for private use on your property or on roads right around your property you wouldn't have to have one.

RWEst I really think your interpretation is on target.