Yet another stuck clutch (mt210D)

[hoozie]

All the threads I found about dealing with a stuck clutch started with the tractor sitting for a while. I didn't find any where the clutch got stuck during use.

So, I was using the tractor, when the threaded rod rolleyes the PO used to connect the clutch pedal to the clutch lever broke. I got the clutch probably half way (or more) disengaged when it broke. I hadn't touched the shifter yet; just pushed the clutch pedal in. I popped it out of gear using the shifter to come to a stop, since it no longer turns off with the key (another issue )

Anyways, fixed the rod, and now the clutch pedal moves through it's normal range of motion, but with no resistance at all. It's like the throwout bearing is seized to the shaft and not releasing.

I've already tried driving around goosing the throttle, and I nosed it into a large post and bumped the starter while in gear/brakes on/mower pto engaged a dozen+ times.

I already split the tractor last year to replace a chipped gear in the transmission, and really don't want to do it again :laughing: At the time, I'm pretty sure I lightly lubed the transmission shaft, and the throwout bearing was in good condition.

So how long do I wait to hope it pops out by itself before I split it again?

 

[Kernopelli]

These are just theories so take them for what they're worth....

Since you've split the machine before, you might remember that the throw out bearing sits on a round hub that slides back and forth on the trans shaft. The clutch release shaft ( "clutch lever") that enters the housing has a fork on the internal side that pushes the throw out bearing forward to release the clutch. It sounds like one of two things might have happened.

1:The pin that holds the bearing hub to the release shaft came out or broke ( that would be quite a coincidence for that to happened at the same instance the threaded rod broke).... or

2.The release fork is no longer contacting the back of the bearing hub. I can't remember how much hub travel is available on the trans shaft but I could possibly imagine that when the threaded rod broke, the pressure plate threw the bearing hub backwards towards the trans end of the shaft and the release fork pivoted backwards enough to allow the hub to slide behind the fork instead of sitting in front of it. If this is the case, the only way I can see to possible fix it w/o splitting the tractor would be to disconnect the release shaft from the threaded rod and pivot that shaft so it pivots the fork all way backward and see if you can get the bearing hub to slide up to the pressure plate and then pivot the fork back. ?????

If you go to Object moved you can view a parts diagram for a ( Mitsubishi made) Case IH 254 that should have a clutch setup like yours.

 

[hoozie]

Thanks for the reply. I have the shop manual for this tractor (which helped tremendously before).

1. I see what you mean about the roll pin holding the release fork to the release shaft could have broken. Usually the clutch has even pressure in/out, and not a snap, like it did when it broke. Only way I can see to fix that would be to split the tractor.

Talking it over with a friend, for the clutch to be engaged, the hub/throwout bearing would have to be towards the transmission, allowing the pressure plate to be engaged (unless the clutch disk welded itself to the flywheel/pressure plate?). So, I think your theory about a broken roll pin on the release fork may be the most likely. What holds the release shaft in? Is it possible I could slide it out of the housing right now, which would prove that the roll pin failed?

2. I see what you're getting at. When I replaced the threaded rod, I did move the lever all the way each way, and didn't feel any resistance/bumps/oddities.

I forgot about the Hub that holds the throwout bearing. Though I don't really see it being able to seize to the input shaft...


Anybody have a extra clutch rod so I can get rid of this POS threaded rod? :laughing:

And... if I do have to split it, I can finally paint it, and take the wiring harness out to replace all the brittle connectors, and hopefully figure out why turning the key off doesn't engage the fuel shutoff solenoid (I currently have to manually push in the solenoid to turn it off).

Maybe it'll be best to just split it

 

[KubotainNH]

Looks like you'll have to split it. Something similar happened to my orange brand tractor because of a mis-adjusted clutch pedal. The piece that pushes on the clutch fingers actually went beyond where it should breaking a finger bolt which meant no way to release the clutch. Any way to shine a light up in there?

 

[hoozie]

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Got it split.

The hub with the ears that is pushed on by the shift fork... spun itself 90°, so the shift fork had nothing to push on :laughing:

Anything else I should look at while I'm in there?

 

[KubotainNH]

Pictures? You don't waste any time.

 

[hoozie]

Yea, I need to take some pictures tomorrow for my records if nothing else.

And grandma and great-grandma were in town to watch the toddler, so I had to make hay while the sun was shining :laughing:

 

[hoozie]

Ok, here's a couple pictures.

The hub spun 90° to it's proper orientation


The hub pulled out, and spun to the wrong orientation like I found it


A tractor split

 

[KubotainNH]

So what keeps it from happening again? Maybe it's just worn out. The piece I circled in the picture below looks work or broken. Hard to tell what it is.

 

[hoozie]

Yea, I'm really not sure what keeps it aligned, other than light pressure between the pressure plate and shift forks.

You circled one of the forks on the release shaft.

Edit: when the hub is slid back in place, it's square enough that it can't rotate. I can only see it rotating if the shift forks are full back, and the pressure plate is compressed. So, if the clutch rod breaks and everything bounces around for a split second... that just might happen.

And I picked up some yokes today I think I can use to make the clutch rod much better.

 

[hoozie]

Got it all back together and moving again.

And figured out why they used the threaded rod, instead of the stock rod. The support bracket for the (aftermarket) FEL goes right through the plane where the clutch rod should go. So, the rod has to be offset almost an inch to fit between the bracket and the hydraulic feed line. There's also not enough room to fit a larger rod, without rubbing the hydraulic supply line. So, I'm not sure what I'll end up doing.

I may be able to get more metal flat stock, and cut/re-weld the bracket so there's a better path for the rod.

 

[docsplace]

I'm having the same issue on a Mitsubishi MT1601D, are you still monitoring this thread, What did you do to fix yours? I have mine split and what I see so far is the release or thrust bearing appears to be stuck and the fork is not engaging the release bearing when clutch is depressed. First thing is I'm going have to adjust that clutch pedal play to make sure that is not a issue, So for I can not move the release bearing hub by hand or with pry bar. There is about 3" of free play in clutch pedal before it starts moving the arm forward to engage the fork, then about another inch of movement for the arm and then it's gets stiff with no movement of the arm or release bearing and about another 2 or more inch of clutch pedal before it would bottom out if it was working, So it looks like either the pins are sheared or bent or forks and or stuck hub release bearing assy. (today's job is to figure that out lol) I found a pretty good image of that under the case IH 234 parts web site, it's not exactly the same but close enough to see what parts are involved in the clutch system.

 

[hoozie]

I'm having the same issue on a Mitsubishi MT1601D, are you still monitoring this thread, What did you do to fix yours? I have mine split and what I see so far is the release or thrust bearing appears to be stuck and the fork is not engaging the release bearing when clutch is depressed. First thing is I'm going have to adjust that clutch pedal play to make sure that is not a issue, So for I can not move the release bearing hub by hand or with pry bar. There is about 3" of free play in clutch pedal before it starts moving the arm forward to engage the fork, then about another inch of movement for the arm and then it's gets stiff with no movement of the arm or release bearing and about another 2 or more inch of clutch pedal before it would bottom out if it was working, So it looks like either the pins are sheared or bent or forks and or stuck hub release bearing assy. (today's job is to figure that out lol) I found a pretty good image of that under the case IH 234 parts web site, it's not exactly the same but close enough to see what parts are involved in the clutch system.

D'oh! Like my pictures show, the throwout bearing carrier just spun 90ｰ, so the forks from the clutch pedal no longer moved it.

If your stuff isn't moving freely, you'll have to start there, and get them moving. Good luck.