Yesterday. Would you buy and EV?

[nickfank]

If an EV has a real world life expectancy of under 10 years, is that acceptable? If I bought a car and in less than 10 years, I needed to pay $26k for a new battery, I'm honestly not sure what I would do.

Let's do the math...

The cost to fuel an ICE car is about 15 cents per mile. The cost to fuel an EV is about 4 cents.

In ten years, most folks put 200,000 miles on a car, so $30,000 in fuel for the ICE, and $8,000 for the EV. That's $22,000 savings in fuel.

Now add in the maintenance costs for an ICE car... Oil, oil filters, air filters, spark plugs & wires, periodic tune-ups, transmission maintenance, brakes... If you pay about $400/year for parts & labor on those maintenance tasks, over 10 years, you've saved $4,000 more, for a total of $26,000, so it comes out even.

$26K sounds like a pile of money, but since you buy your fuel $60 at a time, that seems small until you add up 10 years worth of those fill-ups plus maintenance.

(BTW, before somebody calls me out on the brake maintenance... My EV is on the original factory pads at just over 50,000 miles, and they've still got 3/8" left on them. I *might* have to replace them at 150,000 miles.)

 

[nickfank]

After reading over recent comments on this thread, I have to ask how many people have been banned from using their gas/diesel fueled cars? I'm guessing the same number that had Obama take their guns away. (But who knows, maybe I missed the news, and I'm in violation now. Maybe the SWAT team will be showing up this afternoon for my tractor and rifle.)

 

[LittleBill21]

Let's do the math...

The cost to fuel an ICE car is about 15 cents per mile. The cost to fuel an EV is about 4 cents.

In ten years, most folks put 200,000 miles on a car, so $30,000 in fuel for the ICE, and $8,000 for the EV. That's $22,000 savings in fuel.

Now add in the maintenance costs for an ICE car... Oil, oil filters, air filters, spark plugs & wires, periodic tune-ups, transmission maintenance, brakes... If you pay about $400/year for parts & labor on those maintenance tasks, over 10 years, you've saved $4,000 more, for a total of $26,000, so it comes out even.

$26K sounds like a pile of money, but since you buy your fuel $60 at a time, that seems small until you add up 10 years worth of those fill-ups plus maintenance.

(BTW, before somebody calls me out on the brake maintenance... My EV is on the original factory pads at just over 50,000 miles, and they've still got 3/8" left on them. I *might* have to replace them at 150,000 miles.)

so were not going to talk about the 400 dollar coolant flushes required in EV's? that are every 1 or 3 years, and this includes tesla and kia's new ev6 or whatever it is, there is also a tesla mechanic on reddit, and he tells you the real prices , end ev's have a lot of maintenance as well, so stop pushing this comment, in my last 6 vehicles, I have done nothing in terms of engine or transmission issues, everything else broke, which by the way are on EV's as well. and when the brakes are welded in place, like they are on tesla's i'm told it is a 4 figure repair. or the price of tires and the wear they go through due to the weight of the car? or the plans to 4x the registration costs for ev's that are in the works? early adopters may have gotten a break, those doors are going to be closed quickly.

both vehicles have pro's and con's lets stop pretending either is vastly superior, and i keep vehicles over 15 years, most ev's are in the junkyard at that point. on reddit most ev's battery's being replaced under warranty are upwards of 20k+.... so you have a huge gamble there. and i have a lot of experience with lithium batteries, until the technology changes, there is nothing they can do to extend it.

 

[nickfank]

so were not going to talk about the 400 dollar coolant flushes required in EV's? that are every 1 or 3 years, and this includes tesla and kia's new ev6 or whatever it is, there is also a tesla mechanic on reddit, and he tells you the real prices , end ev's have a lot of maintenance as well, so stop pushing this comment, in my last 6 vehicles, I have done nothing in terms of engine or transmission issues, everything else broke, which by the way are on EV's as well. and when the brakes are welded in place, like they are on tesla's i'm told it is a 4 figure repair.

both vehicles have pro's and con's lets stop pretending either is vastly superior, and i keep vehicles over 15 years, most ev's are in the junkyard at that point. on reddit most ev's battery's being replaced under warranty are upwards of 20k+.... so you have a huge gamble there. and i a lot of experience with lithium batteries, until the technology changes, there is nothing they can do to extend it.

Hmm... On my 2016 Kia EV, I've never done one of these coolant flushes you speak of. I know for a fact that the Tesla Model Y manual says there's no need to flush the coolant ever, but I can't speak with authority about any other EVs, so I won't. I currently operate two EVs (a Kia and a Chevy), and know about the Model Y because I was considering buying a used one. What's your level of experience operating or maintaining EVs?

I agree that they are not perfect, but I stand by the information I provided. And yes, they are vastly superior. While I'm not a professional mechanic, I've rebuilt a dozen car, tractor and motorcycle engines over the years, and have been doing my own maintenance for 44 years, so I've had some experience with both types of technology.

 

[crashz]

HA! - Horse manure crisis! Good Post!

I should have clarified Nick, no ICE vehicles are regulated for owning and driving. But manufacture and purchase in some states have a looming deadline. Even NH has a bill on the floor limiting new ICE car sales in 2032. I doubt it will pass, but these bills gain traction once other states file the regulation. Just like pot.

My point was that we are incentivizing using the stick and should be using a carrot. Promote more clean energy (of all types because it will need everything we can throw at the grid), huge power infrastructure upgrades and let cheaper electricity drive the market towards EV's. But this is highly dependant on power generation and delivery, which need to be bolstered.

 

[Bentrim]

Any body remember these? Do you still have one? Open hood see batteries, lift seat see batteries. Mower, each blade had its own motor, as did the tiller and snow blower. If you haven't seen one they were made in the 70's. And didn't go over to big, but some folks collect them now.

 

[LittleBill21]

Hmm... On my 2016 Kia EV, I've never done one of these coolant flushes you speak of. I know for a fact that the Tesla Model Y manual says there's no need to flush the coolant ever, but I can't speak with authority about any other EVs, so I won't. I currently operate two EVs (a Kia and a Chevy), and know about the Model Y because I was considering buying a used one. What's your level of experience operating or maintaining EVs?

I agree that they are not perfect, but I stand by the information I provided. And yes, they are vastly superior. While I'm not a professional mechanic, I've rebuilt a dozen car, tractor and motorcycle engines over the years, and have been doing my own maintenance for 44 years, so I've had some experience with both types of technology.

3 people I work with daily own them, one a hybrid from hyundai 2015, his requires the coolant flush, and I recently drove the ev6 which or whatever model it is from kia another coworker just bought, who does 1k miles a week. , and when i started the vehicle it complained that the coolant flush was past due, so sounds like you don't read your maintenance procedures for your vehicles. I have worked with lithium technology for over 20 years, there is nothing new there to me.

I also noticed you didn't mention the 2500+ install cost for most people to support stage 2 charging.

let me be clear, I want a EV since i don't live near gas stations, but the ROI simply doesn't pan out for me.

 

[LittleBill21]

Any body remember these? Do you still have one?View attachment 781062

my neighbor owned something like this about 20 years ago, it used 12 or 14 lead acid batteries, was able to cut grass for 30 minutes, and took 6 hours to charge, all you heard were the blades spinning, nothing else. had it for several years.

 

[lman]

Let's do the math...

The cost to fuel an ICE car is about 15 cents per mile. The cost to fuel an EV is about 4 cents.

In ten years, most folks put 200,000 miles on a car, so $30,000 in fuel for the ICE, and $8,000 for the EV. That's $22,000 savings in fuel.

Now add in the maintenance costs for an ICE car... Oil, oil filters, air filters, spark plugs & wires, periodic tune-ups, transmission maintenance, brakes... If you pay about $400/year for parts & labor on those maintenance tasks, over 10 years, you've saved $4,000 more, for a total of $26,000, so it comes out even.

$26K sounds like a pile of money, but since you buy your fuel $60 at a time, that seems small until you add up 10 years worth of those fill-ups plus maintenance.

(BTW, before somebody calls me out on the brake maintenance... My EV is on the original factory pads at just over 50,000 miles, and they've still got 3/8" left on them. I *might* have to replace them at 150,000 miles.)

I use about .08/mile of fuel in our car and I didn't have to install and buy some heavy duty wiring to the garage.
My concern is that there is no free market for electricity to your house, so when the prices start going up due to higher demand, there is no way to shop for cheaper home electricity. Solar is not an option here.

 

[nickfank]

3 people I work with daily own them, one a hybrid from hyundai 2015, his requires the coolant flush, and I recently drove the ev6 which or whatever model it is from kia another coworker just bought, who does 1k miles a week. , and when i started the vehicle it complained that the coolant flush was past due, so sounds like you don't read your maintenance procedures for your vehicles. I have worked with lithium technology for over 20 years, there is nothing new there to me.

OK, so you know people who own them. Oh, but at least one of those is a *hybrid* (you know that means it's powered by a gas engine, right?) Lithium battery technology has changed just a little in 20 years. (That's so obvious I can't believe I have to say it.) Yes, I've read my maintenance manuals. Oddly, I trust my years of actual experience and the manuals in my glovebox more than someone on the internet who knows somebody who owns a hybrid.

Sarcasm aside, I know there are *some* EVs out there that recommend coolant flushes. The EV6 is one of them. On that we agree. I also know that none of those require more frequent coolant flushes than an ICE vehicle, because the the operating temperatures are lower and you don't have to deal with contamination from combustion. (That's why the model Y manual doesn't recommend flushes at all.)