Yesterday. Would you buy and EV?

[Roric]

Ah yes, when the local electricity company builds a plant or sets up a solar or wind turbine farm, yeah, that is part of the cost of supplying the energy we need to keep the lights on, warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

However when when a private organization builds a solar or turbine farm for the purpose of making money, the current users of the local electricity company should NOT have to pay for the new power lines to connect to the established power grid.

That would be comparable to someone building a repair shop in the middle of a 100 acer field and then expect the city or county to build a paved road to his new building so he can profit for it.

"The Interstates were not built for the people that live next to them."

The power grid is part of the infrastructure.

 

[nickfank]

Coal Powered Electric Car

I'm a big fan of EVs, but acknowledge that EVs have always been coal/gas powered. They won't help a bit with global warming until the majority of electricity is produced via renewables or nuclear. Being a fan of new technology doesn't have to involve self-deception.

And speaking of deception... I'm amused that this car-pushing event is being shared globally without anyone questioning the media power that is making the story spread. I'd guess that typically, at least one car breaks down and is pushed by helpful people in every town every day, but nobody bothers to call a photographer & reporter. How very convenient that they were on hand in this case.

I see similar national attention for any EV wrecks or fires, even though NTSB statistics clearly point to EVs being significantly safer per mile travelled than ICE or hybrid vehicles. I can't help but conclude that the media in general and social media in particular are being artfully manipulated by fossil fuel interests. Spinning stories in this way is their right in a free country, but if we don't recognize the effort going into this manipulation, we're deceiving ourselves.

I appreciate that even though nobody is shy about their opinions, many of the people in this forum make me stop and think. You're practical people who work outside in the real world every day, so your opinions, whether I like them or not, are grounded in reality. Tractor folks don't engage in nearly as much self-deception as the rest of the world.

 

[Eagle1]

A lot depends where you live. Around here I have seen 1 Tesla (had to stay an extra day for it to charge) and 1 Hybrid in 15 years. The duck and geese would not move for the Tesla since it did not make noise, which makes me wonder how many deer (etc) will not move for EV and get hit out in the boonies. I do see a lot of diesel trucks and SUVs.
It's a poor area and new car means less than 10 years old for most. Most county roads are gravel and the ones that are paved are often worse than gravel. 4x4 is almost a requirement in the winter or spring (mud season) if you want to make it to pavement.

 

[nickfank]

However when when a private organization builds a solar or turbine farm for the purpose of making money, the current users of the local electricity company should NOT have to pay for the new power lines to connect to the established power grid.

Hmm... a couple of questions come to mind...

Has anyone ever built an electricity generation plant of any kind for any purpose other than making money?

How did all the power lines connecting all of the coal/gas/nuclear/hydro plants get paid for? Is there a grid fairy that just made them appear at no cost to consumers?

I understand there's an implication that local consumers are paying for these lines even though they don't use the power. As a former power company employee, I doubt that. I wrote the program for our utility that calculated what we called the "ERA", which is essentially the adjustment to rates that accounts for the cost of transmission & distribution. The cost of dedicated equipment serving generation facilities were built into the fees for power we bought from those generators, so the end consumers of the power pay for it. That's a FERC regulation that has been in place since nuclear came into play about 50 years ago, because many local utilities didn't want their customers to pay the high costs associated with nuclear generation.

 

[fatjay]

Just wondering... is "Yesterday" suppose to be in the title?

Personally, one of the best things about tractor operation is the decibel level being so high that you can always say, "sorry honey, I didn't hear you calling me!" which would not be the case with an ev tractor.

At the end of the day if the machine gets the job done, at a comparable price point WITH A LIFETIME BATTERY WARRANTY, then sure, an EV tractor would be fine by me. But let's be realistic... no mfg is going to offer a lifetime battery warranty. So why would I want to buy a machine that I know will need a new battery in x hours no matter how well I maintain it? I know there have been a few issues here and there with blown diesel engines, largely due to inherent design flaws or lack of over-engineering of things like oil supply lines or injectors (and sometimes a big ? as to why an engine fails), but for the most part, a diesel engine can last 40-50 years and 10,000 hours, with proper care. How many batteries would you need in that same 40-50 year period?

BTW no more politics talk in this thread, please. The topic can go on without politics, I promise.

The real problem is batteries in cars are not designed to be fully depleted. Their life will be considerably shortened if they go from 90% life to 10% life, then recharge, every single day. But when I'm plowing or planting, or cutting, it can be days or weeks on end, year after year. EV cars are supposed to last 10 years, but they're not getting anywhere near the hours on them that are logged on tractors. It will kill the battery much faster.

There will be no such thing as a 20 year old EV tractor, let alone a 50 year old EV tractor, or older, because there are already issues getting batteries for 10 year old EV's. You think deere is going to sell you a battery for a 10 year old tractor when they changed the tech on them and want to sell you new batteries?

 

[nickfank]

The real problem is batteries in cars are not designed to be fully depleted. Their life will be considerably shortened if they go from 90% life to 10% life, then recharge, every single day. But when I'm plowing or planting, or cutting, it can be days or weeks on end, year after year. EV cars are supposed to last 10 years, but they're not getting anywhere near the hours on them that are logged on tractors. It will kill the battery much faster.

There will be no such thing as a 20 year old EV tractor, let alone a 50 year old EV tractor, or older, because there are already issues getting batteries for 10 year old EV's. You think deere is going to sell you a battery for a 10 year old tractor when they changed the tech on them and want to sell you new batteries?

Yep, that's exactly the issue. Electric tractors will finally be viable when someone starts selling a tractor that you can use any kind of batteries on. Then, it will be reasonable to expect a 50 year old tractor to exist with the same frame & motors, but battery packs replaced with better options as technology gets better. Both of my old tractors are running today because I don't have to depend on the dealer for parts. It'll be a long time before electric tractors get the that point.

Related, on the EV front, I know my local Kia dealer is having problems sourcing a replacement battery pack for one of my EVs that they are servicing under warranty. It's frustrating to know the issue is that they are trying to obtain a battery pack that's 6 years old instead of just installing the newer, cheaper, and more reliable battery that they put in their newer cars. It would save them money and I'd have a better car.

Their pain sourcing batteries isn't costing me a thing, so no serious complaints, just frustrated that EVs are new enough that there's no such thing as an aftermarket replacement yet. It'll get there though.

 

[Pixguy]

No, I would not buy an ev.

 

[Oaktree]

And speaking of deception... I'm amused that this car-pushing event is being shared globally without anyone questioning the media power that is making the story spread. I'd guess that typically, at least one car breaks down and is pushed by helpful people in every town every day, but nobody bothers to call a photographer & reporter. How very convenient that they were on hand in this case.

I see similar national attention for any EV wrecks or fires, even though NTSB statistics clearly point to EVs being significantly safer per mile travelled than ICE or hybrid vehicles. I can't help but conclude that the media in general and social media in particular are being artfully manipulated by fossil fuel interests. Spinning stories in this way is their right in a free country, but if we don't recognize the effort going into this manipulation, we're deceiving ourselves.

I'm not seeing what you describe. If anything, pictures like the one you're commenting on are more poking fun at the pomposity of EV owners/advocates who are under the illusion that they're somehow "saving the planet". If anything, so much of the media is fostering this fallacy.
I'm sure the picture was taken by a bystander and posted to social media somewhere and it took on a life of its own from there. Given their tiny market share, any statistics comparing EVs vs ICE vehicles are highly suspect.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Today there seems to be a huge amount of EV paranoia but most of this group will have transferred 100% of our assets to the next generation long before the paranoia can become a reality.

Companies will be the first wave of EV buyers as the technology evolves for financial reasons. The new Mach E and Lighting purchased locally last month were by a retiring doctor and lawyer.

Knowing one can never afford to buy an EV tends to make one anti-ev in some cases.

The 2017 peak in new car sales is only going to continue to decline for generations to come.

I bought my only new car for $2, 150.00 fifty years and $21,500.00 will buy a new base Nissan. In another 50 years a quarter of a million dollars will buy an equal car.

Going forward our kids will be buying EVS because they are becoming more financially astute. In fact many may pass ownership totally and up for EV robo taixes.

 

[ultrarunner]

Many have no desire for vehicle ownership...

Gas stations closing and leveled as property repurposed is becoming more common.

My golden years are planned tooling around in my antique cars... can't say what the future will bring but not seeing many old cars on the road as before...