Yesterday. Would you buy and EV?

[fatjay]

Why not just own what you want and be happy?

He's quoting that guy from the World Economic Forum that claims that by 2030, you will own nothing and be happy.

 

[CaptFerd]

Why not just own what you want and be happy?

Famous words of Your new unelected world leader Klaus Schwab of the WEF is pushing it. Not me. Thats why

 

[Richard001]

Here in MN land, XCEL Energy, AKA Northern States Power, is asking the PUC to allow them to install 300 to 500 EV charging stations throughout the state and charge the current customers for the cost.

It also appears that NSP is also going to ask the PUC to charge their customers the cost of putting up new power lines to connect the new wind turbine farms to the established grid.

AND, furthermore, the members of the PUC are appointed, and guess who gets to appoint them, the governor. Right now, our governor is a liberal democrat who, in 2020, let the twin cities burn for 3 days before calling in the national guard. The same governor, as part of the COVID battle, shut down the schools and most restaurants. Results, kids reading and math scores are down 30 to 40% and a lot of restaurants have closed.

CA's and Newsoms desire to ban ICE sales is not realistic. As someone on here has already mentioned, CA is asking people not to charge their EV's. With a majority of CA's electrical supply coming from water powered turbines, and with the lakes powering the turbines drying up, I wonder where they think the electricity is going to come from.

 

[ultrarunner]

The powers that be are working on it from multiple angles... many financial.

Of course it is much easier to regulate business use and the wholesale switch required in trucking, utilities, construction and tree services continues.

The Stihl Dealers have little electrics to sell as all local municipalities mandating the switch are scrambling to comply.

A few years back there was a very successful program exchanging gas mowers for electric...

Now I see on the trash heaps the free electric mowers put out for collection.

I asked several why and it is always the same answer... it stopped working.

In every instance only a battery was needed... and price of the replacement battery was too much so junk it... kind of like what some are saying about future EV.

Battery prices for the mowers are all over the spectrum... sourced from manufacturer over a hundred dollars with shipping.

Even at my price it is still half that.

Meanwhile my 21 year old Honda keeps mowing season after season... no running out of charge mid mow... two gallons gas covers Spring and always starts 1 pull...

 

[/pine]

In CA...They need their proverbial heads banged together...!

 

[ultrarunner]

I still don't see how banning ICE sales isn't a violation of interstate commerce. Granted, they can make ownership as onerous as they want via taxes, reg fees, etc., but an outright ban on sales makes CA residents second class citizens in the US. If ICE sales ARE fully banned in CA, it seems the courts (at a minimum) would have to rule that CARB smog rules no longer apply & CA residents could buy federal EPA ICE vehicles out of state & register in CA without modification since manufacturers won't have a reason to make CARB compliant ICE vehicles available. At some point, common sense and economics will have to prevail ... even in the ninth circuit. As far as the small engine ban, my guess is that no one has seen the economics in suing (YET). When enough people are fined by the locals (or GOD FORBID property values decline) due to unkempt yards that CAN'T be mowed/maintained due to lack of power infrastructure to charge their electric mowers/chainsaws (and an inability to buy/run gas/diesel gensets to charge them) a good class-action shyster will be willing to invest the millions needed to win billions. The real solution will be when everyone leaves CA and the state collapses into bankruptcy due to an inability to collect enough taxes to support the regulatory class.

Or many will become outlaws caring for their land...

It again hits business the hardest and landscapers already being turned in and the cost of hiring a gardener here has jumped but somewhat offset by diminished need as expanses of lawns turn brown due to water issues

That said even seasonal grasses need at least one if not two cuts annually to meet fire code.

Fire Inspectors clearly said they do not enforce the gas ban on trimmers... it is not in their code of regulations and for the most part the police are too busy as they don't respond to property crimes as it is.

Never had a ticket but I could go down from mowing my lawn with a mower bought in my city and one where the city collected it's portion of higher sales tax...

Makes for some interesting situations where the adjoining property is county so no restriction as opposed to in city limits banned...

 

[nickfank]

One of the ways to cut through the BS is to follow the money. Look at the prices of things and see what the bankers are willing to loan you money for. If solar panels use more fossil fuels to produce than they will ever produce, then they will simply cost too much to buy, and no bank will loan you money for them. Even the greatest idealist can't stay in business without making a profit.

The energy our solar panels produce has already paid for 1/4 of their cost in the first 3 years. As many have noted, their lifespan is limited. Ours have a 30 year warranty. At the current rate, in 12 years, they've paid for their production and installation cost. 18 years of "free" power is the excess they produce, and the return on our investment. I had several banks offering loans for the installation because the numbers work for them just as clearly. Banks don't offer loans for bad risks.

The 12 year payback figure is without the tax credit. Since I took the tax credit my actual payback period is less than 9 years, but including government subsidies in calculations introduces BS.

At this point, you're leaving a pile of money on the table if you have space to install solar panels and haven't done it.

This isn't a political opinion, it's just simple math and self-interest. You and I may disagree on who to vote for, but I'm not going to throw away $40,000 just to make a political statement or engage in virtue signaling. (I can get a liberal bumper sticker for $1.) Big financial decisions are made with math. Some folks on this thread might want to ask themselves if political allegiance is making them poorer.

 

[nickfank]

The Stihl Dealers have little electrics to sell as all local municipalities mandating the switch are scrambling to comply.

I got a cheap EGO electric chainsaw in the spring, thinking it would be great for little jobs, but not really planning to use it for anything serious like my annual firewood gathering. 6 months later, I realize I haven't picked up the old Husqvarna all summer and the wood shed is full. I'm also really enjoying working without earplugs. No mandates in my area. These are just a better product, and I'm planning on selling my three gas saws before everyone else realizes that.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yep... no shortage of chainsaws on Craig's last I looked...

Two Craftsman were put out for collection... I considered picking one up but decided not too.

Already have gas saws and craftsman is low value and pulling rope starters leave my fingers aching...

Have not stated my Echo or Stihl gas this season...

All the trees that fell used my Stihl Battery and living in city limits the quieter the chainsaw the better as trees are protected... vigorously.

Up the hill someone was leveling out a backyard with a dump load of dirt... the skid steer skinned the bark off an oak and big trouble is just the beginning.

No engineering or permit for the dirt, no tree survey with protection filed to start added that the contractor had no city business license...

 

[Vigo327]

Therefore what? Ban the fuels that have been largely responsible for this stunning reduction in world poverty?

They only try to ban because it is politically easier than what has to be done, in practical terms. In a 'free' capitalist economy where you can't just dictate what a company does from one year to the next without spending 10 years going through all the lawsuits and regulatory runarounds first, the way you actually make something happen is through 'sin tax' and subsidy. Carrots and sticks which slowly roll the ball forward. But taxes are RAISING TAXES!! and subsidies are GOVERNMENT HANDOUTS!! NEPOTISM!! Banning things with the post-date 'EFFECTIVE: some future date at which point it will not be my problem' is easier than doing what would actually work. Why? Because John Q Public whose far-seeing political vision doesn't go past his nose, won't tolerate any long-game plays that that don't immediately benefit himself.

It's the basic reason why free market capitalism can't fix climate change. It has always been the pattern in the industrial age that capital elites die filthy rich long before the **** they've sown hits the fan. The closest we've come to real accountability was the labor riots/massacres of the late 19th/early 20th centuries. There have been no plausible threats of 'pitchforks' since then, nearly 100 years. Th Vietnam anti-war movement failed. 9/11 happened, like it happened at all, and no high level heads rolled unless you count some 3rd world strongmen that had nothing to do with it. Even during and after the Great Recession essentially noone was ever held accountable for the unquantifiable misery laid upon much of the world population from the actions of only a few thousand people. Occupy Wall Street was literally about sitting down. The Covid pandemic has not produced any noteworthy evidence of accountability. Those with real power are essentially godless because there is no evidence of any form of accountability that would even do so much as strike them all the way down to the middle class (GASP), let alone endanger their actual persons. The incentive structure under the current system will never produce real systemic attempts to address climate change, other than those which are calculated ploys to keep the populace as placid as they currently are, aka doing the bare minimum to keep the displaced from showing up on their doorsteps.

China is currently doing what might seem like a lot more than the bare minimum, but it's because they're a lot closer to having the displaced on their doorsteps vs American elites, for whom enough of us are sucking on our middle class pacifier, that we do not collectively acknowledge the reality of impending pain we are earning with our inaction and demand real change. So, people who are actually worried about their little jobs here and there (to which those with true power say: you can just get.. not elected? LOL) are doing little nibbles around the edges with their local/regional 'ban plans' which have yet to survive contact with the enemy, because they can't muster the political force needed to do practical realistic approaches because they can't sell it to the shortsighted lemmings who elected them. Everyone is robbing the future to pay today because, on the timeline of a single human career or even a human lifetime, it has held for all of recent history that that is not only workable, it's the basic blueprint for economic 'success'.