Comparison Yanmar lawsuit.

farmfun · Oct 17, 2012

Now you just have to ask ... With that new unit market, will they stick around this time?

They were officially in the US once before and if the business model requires indirectly killing "legacy" support for the 1st generation as collateral damage...
Will they chase down component resellers?

One poster said
take say a Mitsubishi-made 1983 Dodge Challenger to the local Dodge dealership and expect the service desk will have all the parts it needs?
No we wouldn't, but we may be taken aback if that dealer/manufacturer was to sue a parts house for selling parts it NO LONGER carries...

I had a classic 72 Chevy and would have thrown a fit if GM had gone after some of the aftermarket manufacturers / yards while I was restoring it.

rambler · Oct 17, 2012

This is some bean conters in Corporate thinking they can get a bigger market share if they kill off all their competition with a lawsuit.

The folks sitting in Corporate don't understand, they are killing thier own sales with such foolishness.

Who would buy a machine from a company that kills support for it's own machines?

I surely won't.

Thi has nothing to do with anyone's safety, this is a poor attempt at 'sales'. It will bite them in the end, for sure.

(Been through this same exact deal with some electronics companies, and it never, ever, goes well for Corporate.......)

--->Paul

California · Oct 17, 2012

swick1 said:
How could any American judge allow this with a clear conscience?

We shall see.....

The legal principle was already confirmed by a federal appeals judge. But his ruling was appealed to the US Supreme Court.

I started a thread on this topic over in TBN's 'Friendly Politics'

laughing

section a couple of weeks ago. It has attracted several thoughtful comments.
Will it become illegal to resell your car or tractor without mfg's approval?
I began the thread when I found the material quoted below, and considered it in light of Yanmar's present efforts.
(I expect most of you already know that Yanmar has a continual order to Ebay to take down gray-market Yanmar auctions as soon as they appear).

Tucked into the U.S. Supreme Court's busy agenda this fall is a little-known case that could upend your ability to resell everything.

At issue is the first-sale doctrine in copyright law, which allows you to buy and then sell things like electronics, books, artwork and furniture as well as CDs and DVDs, without getting permission from the copyright holder of those products.

Put simply, though Apple has the copyright on the iPhone, you can still sell it to whomever you please whenever you want without retribution.

That's being challenged now for products that are made abroad and if the Supreme Court upholds an appellate court ruling it would mean that the copyright holders of anything you own that has been made in China, Japan or Europe, for example, would have to give you permission to sell it.

For more discussion on this, see the thread I referenced.

joshuabardwell · Oct 17, 2012

284 International said:
At its heart, though, the question is this: If I buy a tractor (or pair of shoes, a car, kitchen knives, watches, etc), is it legal for me to later sell it, or should the original manufacturer be able to sue me and take it, with no compensation to me? This is the crux of the issue, and the fundamental question.

Doctrine of first sale says that once you buy it, you are allowed to sell it. This is why you can buy and sell secondhand CDs and DVDs.

tb8100 · Oct 17, 2012

joshuabardwell said:
Doctrine of first sale says that once you buy it, you are allowed to sell it. This is why you can buy and sell secondhand CDs and DVDs.

The question the Supreme Court is considering is, "does the first-sale doctrine apply to imported goods?".

Interesting development. Yanmar called off their dogs (attorneys) from eastern US dealers who agreed to cease and desist the sale and support of gray market Yanmars. Will they do so in the south/central US? It's looking like, initially, they're not. We'll see.

Some things for Yanmar to consider. Existing gray market dealers are a virtual dealer network waiting to be snatched up. Some dealerships (like mine) are already taking steps to replace the lost revenue from not selling Yanmar. New unit sales will easily make up for lost revenue and profit (they already have, with one line we took on). If someone at Yanmar has common sense, they'll run around to all these gray Yanmar dealers and set them up selling new ones as part of the deal for ceasing the sale of gray tractors.

The only ones who stand to win in this litigation, like most, are the attorneys. Not Yanmar, not the dealers, and not the end user.

tb8100 · Oct 17, 2012

The purpose of the lawsuit is to eliminate gray market tractors that look new....because Yanmar is about to roll out red and cream colored new ones. Getting away from the black and yellow color scheme they had with Cub.

Rock knocker · Oct 17, 2012

tb8100 said:
The purpose of the lawsuit is to eliminate gray market tractors that look new....because Yanmar is about to roll out red and cream colored new ones. Getting away from the black and yellow color scheme they had with Cub.

Seems like kind of an extreme scorched earth policy for merely a color change

winston1 · Oct 17, 2012

tb8100 said:
The purpose of the lawsuit is to eliminate gray market tractors that look new....because Yanmar is about to roll out red and cream colored new ones. Getting away from the black and yellow color scheme they had with Cub.

Any pictures of these "red and cream colored"?

kenmac · Oct 17, 2012

If There comes a time when I can't get parts for mine & I have to junk it out and buy new. I won't buy a YANMAR no matter what color they put on it

Katahdin · Oct 17, 2012

Well, I for one prefer the yellow and black paint scheme, but if you want to see the tractor models and colors Yanmar sells to all other Non-North America and English speaking countries you can visit this web site: Tractor | Agriculture | Yanmar

clemsonfor · Oct 17, 2012

tb8100 said:
The question the Supreme Court is considering is, "does the first-sale doctrine apply to imported goods?".

Interesting development. Yanmar called off their dogs (attorneys) from eastern US dealers who agreed to cease and desist the sale and support of gray market Yanmars. Will they do so in the south/central US? It's looking like, initially, they're not. We'll see.

Some things for Yanmar to consider. Existing gray market dealers are a virtual dealer network waiting to be snatched up. Some dealerships (like mine) are already taking steps to replace the lost revenue from not selling Yanmar. New unit sales will easily make up for lost revenue and profit (they already have, with one line we took on). If someone at Yanmar has common sense, they'll run around to all these gray Yanmar dealers and set them up selling new ones as part of the deal for ceasing the sale of gray tractors.

so atre u saying your a dealer?

tb8100 · Oct 19, 2012

Yes, we are.

tb8100 · Oct 19, 2012

Katahdin said:
Well, I for one prefer the yellow and black paint scheme, but if you want to see the tractor models and colors Yanmar sells to all other Non-North America and English speaking countries you can visit this web site: Tractor | Agriculture | Yanmar

Yeah, black and yellow is pretty sharp, but that is definitely a Cub Cadet color scheme. Besides, red would make people think it was an Agco from 20 feet. Just like the Kioti color scheme is no accident.

John47 · Oct 20, 2012

Well like I stated earlier, they have lost me as a potential customer, had I not had a grey market Yanmar, I would never have known how great the brand is, but with this attitude of theirs, looks like red or orange or maybe even blue will be my next choice.
And to answer the OP, my wife is "old school" like myself, if she or I took a stupid risk and got hurt, we take the blame for our own silly actions not blame others.
Much like the Ryobi contractor saw incident, how on earth would a court allow a lawsuit against a company when it's blatantly obvious it's neither their fault or way out of their hands???
I had a JD before the Yanmar, no ROPS, no PTO cover and no safety switch on the clutch......

phatgemi · Oct 21, 2012

Just think, there are hundreds of thousands of old JD's, Fords, Massey's, Oliver's and IH that dont have ROPS, safety switches, PTO covers, etc. Wonder if the parent companies will follow yanmar's lead????
It's crazy!!!!

phatgemi · Oct 21, 2012

Just think, there are hundreds of thousands of old JD's, Fords, Massey's, Oliver's and IH that dont have ROPS, safety switches, PTO covers, etc. Wonder if the parent companies will follow yanmar's lead????
It's crazy!!!!

Katahdin · Oct 21, 2012

Courts have allowed these frivolous lawsuits against Yanmar. Read this one: http://opinions.aoc.arkansas.gov/WebLink8/0/doc/273420/Page1.aspx

I don't think you can say JD, Ford, Massey, etc are in the same situation. Are their old exports being imported into the U.S. and re-sold in like-new condition? Are they being sued by buyers who get injured or killed using these gray market imports? Nope.

One could say that this situation the gray market dealers have created, either directly or indirectly, has harmed Yanmar by turning off potential new equipment buyers like yourselves. I feel sorry for those people, I guess they'll be stuck buying either over-priced or inferior equipment.

phatgemi · Oct 21, 2012

Katahdin said:
Courts have allowed these frivolous lawsuits against Yanmar. Read this one: http://opinions.aoc.arkansas.gov/WebLink8/0/doc/273420/Page1.aspx

I don't think you can say JD, Ford, Massey, etc are in the same situation. Are their old exports being imported into the U.S. and re-sold in like-new condition? Are they being sued by buyers who get injured or killed using these gray market imports? Nope.

One could say that this situation the gray market dealers have created, either directly or indirectly, has harmed Yanmar by turning off potential new equipment buyers like yourselves. I feel sorry for those people, I guess they'll be stuck buying either over-priced or inferior equipment.

So do you think this came to a head when the Viet Recons started a new page in the yanmar story. Back when dealers sold them looking like they would for a 20-25 year old tractor everything was ok. But then some started alluding that their tractors were "new --completely reconditioned" ones?