Yanmar imports - continuing at the same pace?

[California]

There was a recent discussion over in the Grey Market Tractors forum titled On the way in or out?

A poster said a dealer who had sold both grey market and Chinese is now selling Jinmas exclusively since that dealer feels the future is a little more secure.

Another poster did a good job of describing how there are so many gray Yanmars in the US that the momentum is increasing, with third parties building replacement parts like you can find for old VW's and Jeeps.

I see occasional references that Yanmar Corp is trying to end imports of their models that were not originally sold in the US.

I'm curious - has Yanmar succeeded in slowing the gray market imports? Are Jinmas beginning to fill the same market niche?

This is interesting to me as a Yanmar owner, concerned that parts will remain available for the useful life of the tractor.

It's also interesting from a business perspective. I've made some money on ebay selling unique products that had great markup. I've wondered if these 'rebuilts' might be a similar opportunity. So far I haven't found a source that I would put my own warranty on.

 

[mark777]

California,

IMHO, When you discover a supplier/wholesaler that can deliver a specific brand only (like Yanmar) with a very high mechanical success rate (95% minimum), is freshly painted and the tractor is ready to work...Then you've struck pay dirt. It would allow you the position to broker the units without maintaining any inventory of tractors, supplies, shop or overhead.

I had the time and opportunity to watch a distribution center that brought in two 45' low boy trailers laden with various models and manufacturers every week. Probably around 48-50 or more per month. Perhaps 10 of those units were brought into their shop, FEL's installed, some re-loded and some went to their lot for display. ALL very pretty tractors, and most were shipped (truck trailer) west.

In the first six months, there were 22 tractors (all very pretty tractors) on the back lot with major mechanical problems. I was allowed to buy parts off these tractors (as I always paid cash), but was never allowed to buy a complete unit. They were loaded up and sent back to Vietnam.

The complete operation, inventory of tractors and people were gone at the end of their first year.

A reputable dealer of used imported tractors, who services what he sells, has to have a variety of tools, shop, office and a form of advertising, with a lot in a commercially zoned area to display the tractors. Also a basic inventory of implements, belts, hoses, filters, and fluids. All essential while still selling at a competetive price.

On occasion, there is the tractor that breaks down, regardless of owner-operator neglect or the tractor failing, it has to be addressed immediately. There is no substitute for a good reputation.

I don't know how long you've owned your tractor or it's condition, but I'll bet that if it were for sale, you would most probably get at least what you paid for it.

Regards, Mark

 

[BruceR]

California,

Wasn't it you that pointed out that these "factory" recons didn't even have the proper fuel filter ? The ones I see even have shiny new painted oil filters and hoses. Some even had the sheet metal joints bondo'd over so the would seem to join properly. How long do you think that would last given the vibration inherent in a 2 cyl. diesel ?

Will you start posting on that VN Sellers message board. They must have one, because none of them seem to speak out here ( other than maybe Loader Bob ).

I think Yanmar owes a debt of gratitude to the Honest dealers like Buck, Ernie, Hoye, Fredericks, LMT, Len, Mark,( I can't spell Tullahoma ) etc. I had never heard of Yanmar or seen a tractor in Monkey S. Green before the Gray Market Tractors hit the shores. If Yanmar ever intends to resume a US presence then their reputation has only been enhanced by these individuals.

How much has Yanmars good name been furthered by VN units ? I have at least three VN dealers within an hours drive. Most offered free delivery. I knew in my heart that I was better off to drive five hours and pick up an honest unit. It even had a shine after I rubbed out the paint with a little compound and waxed it.

If you want to make money on Ebay, maybe you should check into importing "designer" clothes from China. My wife bought skirts for $20 and sold for $200, of course then Customs and the FBI got interested.

Bruce

 

[BruceR]

California,

I'm sorry I'm on my soap box, I don't intend my views to be a personal attack, but this really sticks in my craw. Suppose the individual you purchased your 240 from had been savy enough to put some fresh red paint on it and change the hour meter. Would your tractor be "new".

I didn't get burned on my tractor, but 20 years ago when I started collection antique Winchesters I got badly burnt on more than one occasion and I hold a special place in my heart for those who prey on the ignorance of others.

Bruce

 

[Jagmandave]

I don't think that was his point. I think he was referring to the aftrmarket parts biz, and whether there are enough units on the ground and still coming in for it to be a viable business proposition to supply aftermarket parts for these units...........
Right Cal?

I don't know if that business model would float or not. Do our "legit" tractor suppliers get their parts from Yanmar or second tier suppliers now? Everything I've bought from Hoye came in a Yanmar wrapper or box leading me to believe they came from Yanmar or Yanmar's supplier........

OK, reread his post, maybe that was where he was going after all......

 

[California]

Wow! Lotta people with strong opinions!

I should have been clearer describing the 'unrealized opportunity' that I think *may* exist.

It is clear that the present VN rebuilts are uneven quality, and the bad units among them will bury a reseller who provides a no-exceptions warranty to his customer when he can't get such a warranty from his supplier/importer. And the uneven collection of unmatched parts on even the 'good' rebuilts is driving US parts suppliers nuts.

But those units look so nice that I think they create their own demand.

I think there might be a business opportunity to contract one of the VN rebuild 'factories' (sheds) to rebuild Yanmars to legitimate specifications. This would probably require bringing in a parts manager from Japan who knows what new parts should go into a rebuilt, and maybe replace the shop manager as well. In summary a real ISO 9001 rebuild factory. One specification would be good user and parts manuals and each tractor built with the correct parts described in its parts manual. If its possible to rebuild a WWII Jeep with 100% aftermarket parts then this should be possible for a YM2000 as well.

I don't see a big problem with parts support in the US *if* you honestly tell the customer before purchase that this is an Internet tractor. When you need a part you order it from Hoye, Danny, Len, etc and wait a week for UPS to deliver it or pay more for overnight delivery. Same as a 25 year old American tractor. Or a Dell PC.

And the selling dealer would have to provide a list of local tractor shops willing to do any repair including dealer-paid warranty work, if the dealer doesn't already have a full service shop on the day of his first sale.

This isn't support at the level a farmer or landscaper requires, anyone with a critical need and no backup equipment should buy a Deere from their hometown dealer. But the support I describe should be fine for the weekend amateur who won't be hurt if he has to put off a project until next weekend. Most consumer products do not have any better support than this.

In summary I think an opportunity exists to sell, legitimately, what these present 'rebuilts' only pretend to be.

 

[California]

And I should make clear that the rebuilt business plan I described is parallel to, but not the same as, the business of importing good used tractors from Japan.

Buck and probably several other dealers who prefer to remain anonymous do an excellent job importing tractors that are suitable for continued service with no need for rebuild. A good used tractor should always be in better condition than one that was wholesaled to the rebuilders.

I looked at the websites from Buck, Ernie, Dave, (north of me) and Jim (south) and probably would have made the long drive to buy a clean import from one of them if I hadn't found my Yanmar locally.

At that time there were a lot of VN imports on ebay but I didn't seriously consider buying one by that means - the lack of support was obvious.

 

[gws]

maybe to simple a question but what has the market for tractors been in general. with the current economic state, is the market up or down.

 

[California]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If you want to make money on Ebay, maybe you should check into importing "designer" clothes from China. My wife bought skirts for $20 and sold for $200, of course then Customs and the FBI got interested.

I didn't get burned on my tractor, but 20 years ago when I started collection antique Winchesters I got badly burnt on more than one occasion and I hold a special place in my heart for those who prey on the ignorance of others. -Bruce )</font>

Bruce, we are on the same page. I don't intend to prey on the ignorance of others.

I sold leftover hobby stuff on ebay starting from 1998. Then in 2002 I found a deal I couldn't pass up - one batch of 20 and 35gb high end data backup drives that I tested and guaranteed to meet mfr's specs. I didn't make the markup you are talking about, only about $200 per unit margin x 50 units but that sure was a good return for the effort it took to test them. There was one warranty claim, and I cross-shipped a replacement before receiving the dud - then refunded all his shipping when it arrived. I continue to use that drive for my backups today and still don't know what his problem was.

Never got any Customs or FBI hassle. My feedback remains 100% positive after about 300 transactions.

Likewise owning rentals on and off for years I don't think anyone has moved out due to dissatisfaction, rather a lot of them went off and bought their first home which I thought proved I had bet on quality tenants.

I couldn't run a business any other way.

 

[kenmac]

(But those units look so nice that I think they create their own demand. )

I'll take a used tractor in good mechanical condition any day
over a tractor with a cosmetic make over to cover up problems .

just my 2 cents

 

[California]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( But those units look so nice that I think they create their own demand. -California

I'll take a used tractor in good mechanical condition any day over a tractor with a cosmetic make over to cover up problems. -kenmac )</font>

That's my personal taste (good mechanicals, appearance irrelevant), my sig photos prove it!

But I think gorgeous rebuilts, either bogus or legitimate, will sell themselves to the first-time weekend suburbanite who will judge value, in his eyes, on impressive appearance. Why does anyone buy a car over say $30,000? Mostly to portray an image without any practical need for advanced features. Same reasoning. I think there is a potential market here for tractors that are guaranteed as reliable as they are pretty.


[Edited for clarity: parentheses and photo added]

 

[arthr31]

You guys are being pretty tough on the folks that may have purchased rebuilt/whatever tractors.

A lot of the time they have been told that the engines, clutches, transmissions, etc. have been rebuilt and/or reconditioned (again, yet to be properly explained). I bought my recon 1601 'cause the dealer did right by me and also claimed and stood by the work that was done.

sometimes good looks of a unit play into the perceived value. if you have something that is rusted out and shabby looking it won't attract the first time buyers or the un-educated consumer. Second, third time around you might get a different perspective, henceforth a different buyer. The same guy that purchased the shiny recon might just by the rusted old tractor which works....

Don't alienate anyone. Look at the parts/repair opportunity as a chance to upsell, maybe even resell....

If someone opens an ISO 9001 shop with resale capabilities, I'll run a N.E operation for you, no doubt!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Most importantly, keep tractoring, and keep happy. -art

 

[ym2610]

This may not be the right place or time for this, but my 2 cents worth is that its sad that we in USA can't be responsible for our on actions, what I mean is that (Yanmar wont sell parts to the USA ) because of a law suit, I don't know for sure but if its like most law suits, the owner was probably doing something he didn't need to be doing on it, even if he wasn't Yanmar still won't sell because one or two people in the USA can't be held responsible for their actions /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif, this makes me mad, great tractor, but because it don't have a shield (don't stick your hand there) it don't have a ROP ( stay off the steep hills) its to dangerous for the USA, can't sell tractors are parts because they would be responsible if you get hurt on it, this is BS, if you buy it your responsible for operating it right, Yanmar is not the only tractor that someone has got hurt or killed on, I do agree with CAL on the manuals should come in English, and be with every tractor sold. I do hope that one day Yanmar will change their mind, but I don't blame Yanmar right now, I wouldn't sell them or parts, next they will go after the US sellers, I hope this never happens, but it won't surprise me, for now all you sellers and aftermarket parts guys keep up the good work. I hope to keep my Yanmar a very long time. sorry I just had to vent. Thanks Robert

 

[EFC]

If the tractors were actually rebuilt you could not afford them. Vietnam doesn’t buy parts from Japan. I am in Japan every month I talk with the dealers over there about Vietnam. They all say that if Vietnam did buy parts from Japan they would exhaust the parts supply almost overnight. The tractors they rebuild being an inch away form junk require so many parts that Japan could not supply them. If you did rebuild a Vietnam tractor to ISO specs my guess based on knowledge of parts prices in Japan a normal tractor would average 20k each retail.

When a manufacturer builds a tractor they have an obligation to have parts on hand for a particular # of years. The bean counters do the math and give the company a guestimate based on typical use and life expectancy of how many of each part are needed to meet that regulation. They do not take into consideration third world countries grabbing hulking carcasses and bringing them back from the dead.
If anything kills the grey industry it will be VN salvaged junk.

I was having dinner last time I was in Kobe with a Yanmar rep and he made reference that VN was the answer to Yanmar’s export problem. I asked what he meant and he politely smiled and ended the conversation. I took it that if VN ate up all the parts then Yanmar would not look like the bad guy for not selling parts. So far though VN chooses to make their own parts so maybe my guess is incorrect.

Either way there are lots of third party companies building parts for greys now, thanks to some great established legitimate importers. So even without Yanmar we can support the tractors we sell for years to come.

Buck

 

[BruceR]

I don't hold anything against those who buy or even sell VN recons. But let the consumer know exactly what they have in hand.
Put the pencil to the price of parts for a complete rebuild; engine, clutch, hydro, etc. I don't see where it can be done without cutting some major corners. I have yet to see an ad for recons that dosen't give an impressive list of NEW parts in each and every tractor. Of course, in the fine print it states "as needed". Well Heck no it won't need that new piston when you have a pile of used ones that you can make fit, a can of flat black Krylon ( I doubt they would spend the extra cents on Rust-o-leum ) will make that muffler good as new won't it ?

You would miles ahead to take an "A" class machine to begin with and do the cosmetics on it. Maybe even run the seat down to the trim shop for a little tuck and roll, wouldn't that impress the neighbors. My suburbanite transplant neighbors have new Kubotas to impress each other, but they all looked sideways at each other when they found out that my shiney new tractor ( a little rubbing compound and wax for the sheet metal, a 50-50 mix of Wesleys Whitewall Cleaner and Kerosene for the frame , engine and tires ) was really 26 years old and was purchased for what they put down on theirs.

As far as ROPS and shields, I am a believer, even the safest operator can have a momentary lapse. However, I spent a lot of time looking at US branded tractors in my price range and none of them had saftey equipment either.

You have a great idea California, but I don't see it comming to fruition as you have laid it out. You can bet someone else already thought of it. I thought the same thing would be nice to do with classic autos when I worked in a restoration shop. Only problem was that they would cost more than an a new one. Made much more sense to provide the labor and let someone else foot the bill.

Bruce

 

[kenmac]

I looked at & could have bought a v. n. rebuild. I bought the same size tractor same price from Fredricks. New or recovered seat ,paint job, new steering wheel, lights, sway chains, etc; This was not a junked out tractor that was pieced together in v.n. I have had no warranty or parts problems.Can you get a 6 mo.front to rear of the tractor warranty from v.n. ? Most I've seen offer 3 mo. engine & or power train warranty only.