World not ready for Indian Products?

[N80]

These used to be worse than they are now?

No, I didn't mean to imply that. As far as corruption goes, I'm sure its on par with the past and the rest of the world. As the bard said, "There is no new thing under the sun."

See my next post below.

 

[N80]

- Do you have to bribe a government official to build a house?
- Get a septic permit?
- Get water?
- Access sewer?
- Get the trash picked up?
- Do you worry that the POlice will pull you over and demand money? If you don't pay they beat you? And this is considered "normal"
- Do elected official consider bribes part of how they are paid?Dan

Are you kidding? Seriously, I'm not knocking the good old USA but if you don't think the kind of thing you're describing goes on all day every day in this country then you may not be paying enough attention. It does and I've seen it on the level you're talking about with my own eyes. I'll put it this way....it was very hard for me to get a septic permit for my cabin.

Have you ever been to New Orleans? Detroit? LA?

But, the bigger problem is how bribes and corruption are simply given proper, PC names and made legal. Making a process legal does not make it right. And the simple truth is that a house or senate seat in this country is a path to riches. Why is that? How is that? There is nothing about being a civil servant that should entail instant wealth. In this regard we may be the most corrupt country in the world, we just use nicer words for it and whitewash it.

 

[xlr82v2]

George, you hit the nail on the head!

 

[dmccarty]

Are you kidding? ...

Have you ever been to New Orleans? Detroit? LA?
....

No. And Yes. Its an order of magnitude problem.
Does corruption exsist in this county? Of course.
Is it rampant? No.
Is it considered part of the system an accepted? No.
Does one have to pay off officials to get a marriage license, get information from the Deeds office, get a permit, get the trash picked up, not get a false citation, etc? No.

When public officials in this country violate the law they are almost always are removed from office and/or serve time in prision.

Its not tolerated. The NC HP has been in the news way too much over the last month or so. Quite a few officers have been put on leave, quit, or fired due to DUIs off duty, unexceptable behavior on duty, and some actions that will seemingly lead to criminal charges. In a corrupt society these guys would still be serving.

I can think of three elected officials who have gotten in trouble with corruption. Two where sent to prison and the third seems to be heading that way. In a corrupt county that would not happen.

We used to live in LA and it has to be one of the most corrupt states in the USA. New Orleans is a perfect example of what happens with corruption. But NO or LA does not reflect what happens in the rest of the USA.

Elections and money will always be problematic. And power is abused. Always has been And it always will be as along as people are people. But in our system the abuse is minimized to a great extent.

If we took the list of questions I had previously and polled TBNer do we really think that a majority of the members would answer yes to most of the questions on my list of corruption?

We had a problem with a government official when buying our land. I think he was taking bribes. We had several paths to work around him which we did and solved the problem we had with him. In a corrupt society that would not have been possible. As it was, his boss figured out what was going on and he was fired within the year.

We have little "c" corruption in the USA. Most countries have Big "C" Corruption. There really is no comparison. This has not always been true. We had Big C Corruption certainly into the 60s.

Later,
Dan

 

[canoetrpr]

I grew up in India and I think George's and California's assesment of India is bang on.

One of the substantial challenges that India has compared to China is that it is going through this tremendous industrial revolution while it is a rich thriving democracy. In China if the plan calls for building a road or laying a power line - it gets done. Dissenters don't have much of a voice. In India, people have freedom and liberties. Yes a lot of poor people continue to be oppressed by the rich but if the government decides to build a road through your house, you have the right to protest and be heard.

This makes it more challenging an industrial revolution than in China.

Urban India does not have much of the caste system left. More and more of the country is urbanising. Middle class India also does not have much of the caste system left. The caste system is outlawed in India and while it still remains it is mostly a rural beast that is most applicable to the poorest of the poor. As time goes on it will loose more and more ground as more of the country urbanises and gains materially.

JMHO.

 

[N80]

Dan, I'm glad you feel this way. You feel like you have data to suggest that we have minor corruption problems in this country. I have data to suggest that corruption is rampant here. And in my opinion, for each official you cite getting caught and going to jail, I'd say there are 10 that aren't getting caught. We'll have to agree to disagree. I think this is a great nation. The greatest in modern history. I just think it is naive to think we are any different or any better than anyone else. Are we like the Third Reich, Pol Pot, Stalin....obviously not. But I still believe our current system, regardless of party affiliations, is loaded with corruption, much of which has been legalized by those who wish to perpetrate it. As such, this could devolve into a semantic argument about whether something is 'corrupt' if it has been made legal. Of course history would answer in the affirmative. Many inhumane and racist policies in this country were 'legal' at one time. There are still legal practices in this country that nearly half of its poplulation consider to be inhumane.

Regardless, I'll leave this alone. It seems the issue is what kind of quality we can get from India. India will have to answer that question and the consumers will have to verify it. So far, I've been impressed with what I've read and heard about Mahindra, so they seem to be off to a good start.

 

[Bird]

I think this thread is wandering too far into politics, so maybe it's time to close it.