Working rail roads and their tracks.

[LouNY]

Many years ago when I was working in the Western states you would see immense coal trains heading to power plants,
they would often have a couple or even three engines in the mid section of the train.
I was told at the time that the train could handle the grades and turns better with the mid train assist then having all the engines in front just pulling.

 

[caver]

My old plant Generation and Transmission Coop) had a large aluminum smelter next door. Noranda got their bauxite in on a barge. They were a great electric load (400MW) to have at night when power consumption is low. This is just south of New Madrid MO
They wanted a better electric deal and our ceo couldn't do it without the coop members essentially subsidizing them. They went a different route and had their own "utility" for awhile which was just a power marketer. Yes we lost 400MW 24/7 load but growth in our coop was starting to take its place. My employer built some gas peaking plants but didn't have to build another coal plant which would have been an uphill struggle. A smaller outfit bought part of Noranda's plant.

 

[JethroB]

Many years ago when I was working in the Western states you would see immense coal trains heading to power plants,
they would often have a couple or even three engines in the mid section of the train.
I was told at the time that the train could handle the grades and turns better with the mid train assist then having all the engines in front just pulling.

When the engines are not all together at either the front or back, how do they deal with the slack between cars that comes and goes?

 

[the old grind]

When the engines are not all together at either the front or back, how do they deal with the slack between cars that comes and goes?

If MU systems (multiple unit) aren't digitized and radio connected/controlled by now ...

Used to be just a big patch cable thingie between engines to control all immediately coupled from one cab. (a B-unit or switcher calf has no cab. )

Diesel locos are electric trains powered by diesel generators. They were 'drive-by-wire' from way back.

 

[MossRoad]

There is a local that does a lot of switching in and out of the siding that crosses Logan street. They feed pneumatic hopper cars to the Brunk Corp., where they process the plastic pellets the cars carry. They block Lincoln Ave. a lot, but usually only for a few minutes at a time.

One interesting thing about that local is that a while back they went from two locomotives to one, and started dragging a caboose behind the locomotive. I wonder why?

The new bypass isn't in the database of my GPS, and on the rare occasion I have it on, it really gets confused when I'm on it.

I've noticed that caboose as well, been meaning to get a photo for a local-ish facebook railroad page. And you mentioned distributed power. I've noticed that as well with a locomotive mid-length. I presume the advantage is longer trains but what's the advantage of the mid-train loco versus more at the front?

So welcome to the small world....

Was at a family function today and my nephew is a conductor for NS working out of the Elkhart yard. I asked him about a few things we've been discussing.

First, he said the caboose is there because they have to push a lot of cars into places where there are unguarded crossings and the engineer can't see back there. Normally they'd just hang on the steps on the back car with a radio, but there are so many crossings and tight spaces to back into, that they use the caboose as a safer platform. He said there's also a caboose in the yard on the west side of South Bend for the same reason at Steel Warehouse. He knew the names of the companies you've mentioned.

Second, he said the train lengths have gotten way longer in the past several months, and the mid-train engines are indeed providing power. They're remote controlled from the front. He said it's all related to fuel savings. Someone figured out they get better mileage with one on the middle on the longer trains VS all power up front. It's not like out west, where they need them for the grades, as we're basically flat. He also said it's a pain when you get to the yard, because you have to break the mid-engines out of the train and it takes more time. But, he's hourly, so no big deal.

 

[JethroB]

If MU systems (multiple unit) aren't digitized and radio connected/controlled by now ...

Used to be just a big patch cable thingie between engines to control all immediately coupled from one cab. (a B-unit or switcher calf has no cab. )

Diesel locos are electric trains powered by diesel generators. They were 'drive-by-wire' from way back.

I am wondering about the slack caused by the play in the car couplers. Like towing with a chain. The front engines would take out the slack as it starts out (bam bam bam). The front engine could move several feet before the last car begins to move. So wouldnt a rearward pushing assist engine be putting the slack back in? The word bucking comes to mind.

Edit: Moss, maybe another question for your nephew

 

[Cub 7274]

They put a caboose on to make it easier for the local to switch industries without two units and someone hanging on the side of a car for miles to do it

 

[RobS]

So welcome to the small world....

Was at a family function today and my nephew is a conductor for NS working out of the Elkhart yard. I asked him about a few things we've been discussing.

First, he said the caboose is there because they have to push a lot of cars into places where there are unguarded crossings and the engineer can't see back there. Normally they'd just hang on the steps on the back car with a radio, but there are so many crossings and tight spaces to back into, that they use the caboose as a safer platform. He said there's also a caboose in the yard on the west side of South Bend for the same reason at Steel Warehouse. He knew the names of the companies you've mentioned.

Second, he said the train lengths have gotten way longer in the past several months, and the mid-train engines are indeed providing power. They're remote controlled from the front. He said it's all related to fuel savings. Someone figured out they get better mileage with one on the middle on the longer trains VS all power up front. It's not like out west, where they need them for the grades, as we're basically flat. He also said it's a pain when you get to the yard, because you have to break the mid-engines out of the train and it takes more time. But, he's hourly, so no big deal.

Good stuff, thanks Moss (and your nephew!).

 

[MossRoad]

He said it's a fun job, but the hours are insane. He's on call for a set number of days and has 2 hours to get to work if he's called. He takes his train to wherever it's supposed to go, then, if it's too far away to make it back in a set time, they take him in a taxi to a hotel, where he has to get at least 10 hours of rest, before they might call him again. When they do call him, he brings a train back to Elkhart. He said they mostly go to 3 places. Chicago, Ohio, or down to Peru. Chicago is the shortest route but takes the longest time. He can tell some stories about what he's seen along the tracks in Chicago.

 

[BravoXray]

I've noticed that caboose as well, been meaning to get a photo for a local-ish facebook railroad page. And you mentioned distributed power. I've noticed that as well with a locomotive mid-length. I presume the advantage is longer trains but what's the advantage of the mid-train loco versus more at the front?

Distributed power in a train lessens the strain on couplers. By putting another locomotive back in the consist, it's basically pulling the last portion of the cars by itself, taking that amount of strain off the couplers at the head end. Three or four locomotives on one group can develop enough drawbar pull, around 100,000# of drawbar pull each, to break knuckles or pull drawbars out of the draft gear unless the engineer is careful. Most knuckles will break at around 300-350,000# pounds of pull.
On that subject, if you watch most trains come to a stop now, they actually keep just a little power on until the train comes to a stop. This keeps the train "stretched out", i.e. no slack is developed in the length of cars. Then, when they do apply power to move again, they don't get cars at the front moving one at a time and jerking the next in line into motion in a chain reaction down the length of the train. This puts a lot of strain on knuckles and draft gear. Instead, the whole consist moves as one solid string. Years ago, when steam was used, they actually would get some slack to help the locomotive get the train moving. Even when the diesels first came into use, you would hear the chain reaction of slack being taken up when they began moving. But back then they weren't pulling 1 1/2 or 2 miles of cars behind them. A good engineer knows just how to stop where he wants without letting the slack run in on him.