Working a field, what is better?

[98hd]

I've got several small fields (2-4 acres each), that I need to work up, wondering what would work the best for me, was going to buy a disk, or maybe a plow would be better?

I have a field cultivator already, but need to break up the soil first.

Running a kubota l5030 and soil has alot of clay in it. I remember using my uncles disk and a cultivator (and tractor) years ago last time I did it, but the disk seemed to take forever.

 

[Egon]

Plow and then disk or cultivate.

 

[IslandManMitch]

What is the plan for the fields?

 

[98hd]

Just planting some deer plots. Might try some beets or something in a couple of the fields, I have access to a seeder for that.

 

[Gizmo36]

Get a Plow after you plow then the field cultivator will work good.It will make it like powder

 

[andrewj]

tell us more about the shape the field is in. Is it cutover with stumps? in between? If it has been in pasture before, then you can probably just disk the grass under, wait two weeks or so, disk again, then use a rake or box blade to level it all up, then maybe cultipack it, then seed/drill it, then cultipack again.

If it is rough, or has a lot of trash (twigs, limbs, bark, etc.) then your disk may not cut through that stuff.

As far as using a bottom plow, understand you will be inverting your topsoil lto the bottom, and bringing clay or other sub soil to the top. clay is good, but it is NOT topsoil without biomass in it. If you have a deep topsoil layer like 8 or 10 i nches like inthe bottom land, you may be able to use a bottom plow. so describe the land for us.

 

[98hd]

i disagree with everybody. no one here can tell you which plow to use till you tell us what kind of shape the field is in right now. Has it been planted before? Is it cutover with stumps? in between? If it has been in pasture before, then you can probably just disk the grass under, wait two weeks or so, disk again, then use a rake or box blade to level it all up, then maybe cultipack it, then seed/drill it, then cultipack again.

If it is rough, or has a lot of trash (twigs, limbs, bark, etc.) then your disk may not cut through that stuff.

As far as using a bottom plow, understand you will be inverting your topsoil lto the bottom, and bringing clay or other sub soil to the top. clay is good, but it is NOT topsoil without biomass in it. If you have a deep topsoil layer like 8 or 10 i nches like inthe bottom land, you may be able to use a bottom plow. so describe the land for us.

All have been worked over before, no trash or stumps or anything, I had planted clover in all of them about 4 or 5 years ago (disk and cultivator), and haven't touched them since, but now I have my own tractor. No idea how deep the topsoil is, but I can take a look at it.

I had planned on just using a disk, but they are hard to find around here used and for a decent price, however I see plows everywhere.

 

[Egon]

Considering all the acres of land that have turned over with a plow inverting the soil should not be a problem.

 

[andrewj]

Considering all the acres of land that have turned over with a plow inverting the soil should not be a problem.

the ph in the top two or three inches can differ from that 8 inches down. the organic matter on the top may or may not exist 8 or so inches down. Some land has a very thin layer of topsoil and folks around here use a "chisel plow" for that, also old timers call it a "tiller" which is what it was used for before they made the mechanical tiller.

so one mistake you can make is to get your ph right, then invert it with a bottom plow and realize you have bad ph all the sudden! fertilizer is expensive. so is lime. I can't afford to amend the same ground twice because of such a mistake.

The makeup of clay is obviously different than the consistency of a topsoil made up of the same clay combined with organic matter.

You will see many threads here about what to do to make clay land fertile, and after all the suggestions to add sand, someone finaly suggests to add organic matter. (clay and sand = a brick) organic matter somehow allows the clay to hold nutrients (it does well all by itself, though)

I am not a scientist, and I am not a professional farmer, but I have wasted time and money and i believe that to be my best qualification to answer your question. So I am not saying don't use the bottom plow, but I am saying only use it if the situation warrants it. I am especially committed to this suggestion since you say you will be spending hard earned money on a new one. if you had twor or three laying around, i'd say experiment. but when it comes to money for a farmer nowadays, you can only make so many mistakes before the bank forecloses. you get the idea. not knocking Egon at all, just saying the bottom plow is not always the best choice.

 

[98hd]

Well, thanks for everyone's help. I talked to some local people also and the consensus is to get a disk. Time to start looking again.

 

[HillbillyFarmer]

Considering all the acres of land that have turned over with a plow inverting the soil should not be a problem.

Yes, and considering the poor condition of farmlands in America today, perhaps all that deep tilling wasn't such a good idea. Topsoil is living material while sub soil is simply dead substrate. When you turn the topsoil under, it dies.
Most farmers know that. Some care. Some don't.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Well, thanks for everyone's help. I talked to some local people also and the consensus is to get a disk. Time to start looking again.

Where is "local"? (state? nearest city?)

 

[98hd]

Where is "local"? (state? nearest city?)

upper michigan.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

upper michigan.

Just a tad bit out of range for me. I have a couple different disc's that need to be used a bit to wear some rust off of disc blades. Oh well...

 

[RobJ]

I think a disk will give you more flexibility. Using a 1 row turning plow may take a long time on 2-acres. And a disk should get you in the ground a few inches with a pass or 2 and that's all you need for a deer plot. The biggest thing that will help a deer plot is moisture!!

Some pics from Saturday when I was doing mine. The disk is a little 5' 3pt.

First pic is my disk setup, with the weight added in sand it'll bury that tractor.

second is some finished disked path, 2 weeks before I ran a sort of homemade 3 shank subsoiler thing. It busted up the black gumbo down to about 4-5 inches. The disk finished the job and cut it up nicely.

3rd, shot of some never touched wooded gumbo. went over it about 4 times and was good enough to catch some seed. I ran a drag over this to cover the seed.

4th..my homemade drag, nice to pull it with an atv.

5th...my seed mix and some rye.

 

[Egon]

Most definetly a plow is not the best impliment in many cases. Cultivators and discs work much better in some situations but usually require a lot more HP to do a proper job. Zero till is probably the best solution but again involes equipment most here do not have and also require larger tractors to pull the seeding train.


As for maintaining the soil the procedures should vary according to the type of soil and nature of the terain plus the quality and quanity of the rain that falls.



But almost universally very deep rooted plants will aireate the soil, bring nutrients to the top and allow water penetration. This would indicate rotation of some kind. If one is depending on the PH of the top 2 inches of soil to raise a crop then he may soon be delusioned. Excessive fertilization is also a big culprit in leaching the soil of it's vital nutrients.

And there are so many other items involved in proper soil maintenance it's impossible for the challenged, like myself, to keep up!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

You've got some decent advice so far. BUT.... What you NEED is good LOCALIZED advice. Someone more familiar with local growing conditions, soil structure, and with knowledge of how to achieve your intended results based on local conditions

Call you "county agent". I'm not familiar with Michigans AG network, but I'm positive there'll be such. County Extention Agents are familiar with what works, based on personal observations and training.

They'll know how deep you want to work the ground, what you need to add to the soil, and what tools work best with your conditions. It's usually free advice, and it's almost always GOOD advice. In my case, they even suggested a state program to improve my pastures without large "out of pocket expense" on my part. (State picked up most of the tab)

Give 'em a call. Nothing to lose and MAYBE much to gain.

 

[redlevel]

Yes, and considering the poor condition of farmlands in America today, perhaps all that deep tilling wasn't such a good idea. Topsoil is living material while sub soil is simply dead substrate. When you turn the topsoil under, it dies.
Most farmers know that. Some care. Some don't.

There is a place for a bottom plow and deep tillage. Often it is desirable to turn lime or fertilizer under. We used to do it regularly when we grew peanuts. We wanted the ph amended down to taproot depth-about 10 inches. Turning the fertilizer under still left it available to the plants, but did not stimulate an early growth of weeds as it would have done if it had been worked into the top four or five inches.

When we prepared land for planting peach trees, we would turn under a couple tons of lime and then add another ton on top of the soil, because that was the last chance for tillage. Also, there isn't a better way that I know of to get a green-manure crop where it will do some good than turning it under with a bottom plow. A winter rye crop turned under in late March is standard procedure for peanut growers in GA.

A much overlooked tillage tool, especially for small farms, is the one-row subsoiler. You can get a field in good shape using only a subsoiler and a disc harrow. I often subsoil on sixty inch centers, then come back with the rear wheels directly over the original subsoiler furrows. The slight slippage of the rear wheels actually loosens the soil (especially clay) and breaks up any clods that were pulled up. This gives subsoil furrows on thirty inches, and a couple of passes with a disk can usually leave a pretty fair seedbed.
Also, subsoiling in the fall allows winter rains to soak in rather than run off.

Of course, as they say, "local conditions may differ."