Wood Chip Tree farming question

bjr · Sep 13, 2005

How do the farmers remove the old stumps to prepare the ground for the new planting? bjr

beenthere · Sep 13, 2005

Dig them out with whatever means they have available to them including the extra money to hire it done, or with the equipment they might have, or last resort, with the hand tools they have.

With a pick and a shovel and an axe, the stumps can be taken out.

Also, with a D-10 dozer or a large backhoe, they can more easily (also more costly) be taken out.

Somewhere in that range, is where you would like to be. So what do you have available, and what can you 'afford' to spend per acre to get the stumps out? Are these small tree stumps or 'large' tree stumps? If they are 2-3" diam stumps, or 3-4' diameter stumps, it makes a huge difference.

How do you plan to get them out? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

inveresk · Sep 13, 2005

bjr, you might want to try to post your question on one of the forestry forums such as www.forestryforum.com. They're likely to have members who are pretty routinely conversant with those types of questions.

DrRod · Sep 13, 2005

Christmas tree farmers will often do a 3-foot phase shift of the field for replanting. The original rows are 6 feet apart so they just plant the new rows in between. By cutting the stumps low it doesn't interfere with the mowing and a quick painting with diesel fuel helps them rot.

I've also seen a PTO mounted grinding drum demo at a tree conference. Its a metal drum about a foot across with sharp bumps on it and you just roll through the field grinding away -- you don't stop like with a regular stup grinder, it just leaves a consistent trail of torn up grass and stump chips.

beenthere · Sep 13, 2005

...and a quick painting with diesel fuel helps them rot. 

Not that it makes any difference but I know a bit about wood, and cannot imagine what diesel fuel could do to wood to help it rot. If anything, diesel fuel would hinder the growth of the bacteria and fungi that feed on the wood, with moisture and temperature to do their job best. Its one step that could be saved, if the Christmas tree farmers are looking for one. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

psuedofarmer · Sep 13, 2005

ditto what beenthere suggests.

i plant ~1000 trees/year. use a combo of a dozer and BH to clear. also use the offset planting method (using 6ft rows) when planting christmas trees.

pf

DrRod · Sep 14, 2005

Oddly enough, I have always thought what beenthere says. I would think that any petroleum product would repell water, insects, fungus, bacteria, etc. and actually preserve the stumps. But I've heard several guys in the Christmas Tree association say they do this. Maybe its to supress the growth of bugs and diseases in the field -- but I thought they said it helped them to break down.

drmiller100 · Sep 14, 2005

let them dry and burn them down.

bbq briquettes will get them 8-10 inches a burn. doesn't get rid of the roots tho.

John_Mc · Sep 14, 2005

( Not that it makes any difference but I know a bit about wood, and cannot imagine what diesel fuel could do to wood to help it rot. If anything, diesel fuel would hinder the growth of the bacteria and fungi that feed on the wood, with moisture and temperature to do their job best. Its one step that could be saved, if the Christmas tree farmers are looking for one. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

Not to mention that diesel fuel is something nasty to be getting in your soil or water. It doesn't take much at all to ruin a LOT of water.

John Mc

beenthere · Sep 14, 2005

( It doesn't take much at all to ruin a LOT of water.
)
How do you figure that? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

rswyan · Sep 15, 2005

( How do you figure that? )
I think he's confusing gasoline and diesel.

Jstpssng · Sep 15, 2005

When I worked at an apple orchard we used a backhoe, followed by a harrow. We then had to go through and pick all the stray roots out by hand, apparently old apple roots cause problems with the new trees.

John_Mc · Sep 15, 2005

( ( How do you figure that? )
I think he's confusing gasoline and diesel. )

No, diesel, oil and other petroleum products are a serious problem to surface water quality. It's enough of a problem that some landowners and sustainable forestry organizations are requiring (or at least pushing for) a containment area at logging sites where all lubrication and refueling are done. This is to prevent spilled diesel, hydraulic or lubricating oils from contaminating the site. After the logging operation is done, the containment area including any contaminated tarps, soil, & etc. is packed up, hauled way and disposed of properly.

This type of precaution is not unusual where municipality owns a logging site in the watershed of a reservior which provides their drinking water. I was just at a 3 day sustainable forestry course where it was mentioned that some private land owners are also requiring this.

John Mc

penokee · Sep 15, 2005

I don't mean to make light of this because it's a good idea - just want to mention that some years ago the Forest Service made loggers in the Natonal Forests in Oregon wear diapers on their skidding horse so they wouldn't pollute the watershed - always wondered how they got diapers on the Elk, Deer, Bear, etc - unless their droppings were different. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

have_blue · Sep 15, 2005

( How do you figure that? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif )

Take a 5 gallon water jug full of drinking water water. Add 1/2 drop diesel and shake. Drink up, and see how it tastes and smells. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

All seriousness aside, diesel and gas spills can ruin well water a mile away.

beenthere · Sep 16, 2005

All seriousness aside, diesel and gas spills can ruin well water a mile away. 

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Or did you mean "all joking aside" ?

If diesel and gas spills ruined water that way, we'd hear of more ruined water wells. I don't hear of any, but I do hear of diesel and gas spills. I don't think of it as a joking matter, and I don't carelessly spill diesel or gas on the ground. But I really don't believe it can or will pollute a well a mile away. If it did, I would be trying to get all my neighbors within a mile to stop using diesel or gas.

A half drop in 5 gal of water isn't a good test, IMO. I would guess, and it is just a guess, that it's more like a half a drop in 50,000 gal of water. I'd agree to disagree, and don't want to belittle your beliefs. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

BigDogues · Sep 16, 2005

Either way, would you want your children to drink it?

DrRod · Sep 16, 2005

I suspect you don't hear about it more because most people (speaking of my area) just don't know it. They don't test their water just like they don't clean their chimneys. But it is amazing how far something will leach or travel underground. I pulled an old fence post one day and water gushed into the hole. We also had a depression in a field that started to open up a little and it turned out it was an underground stream.