Wobble pump

[bindian]

I changed fuel filters on my Mahindra 6520 today. On the forward filter assy., there is a primer to pump while cracking open the banjo fitting to bleed the air out. On pre WWII aircraft, this was called a wobble pump, but was used to prime the engine to start. It was sweet just kneeling there and pumping the primer while cracking the banjo open and closed. On my old Ford 3055, you had to crack the filter bowl loose and then key the engine over. Do other brands use a primer on the fuel filter, or is this an Indian thing? I don't think the 10 series Mahindra's have a primer.
hugs, Brandi

 

[xlr82v2]

Brandi,

The Case/IH 7110 (same basic Cummins engine that's in your Dodge pickup) we had had a plunger pump to bleed the air out of the fuel filters.

I can't remember if any of the other tractors did as well... probably not, I think I would remember if they did. I think the Ford 6610 that we had had a little lever on the fuel pump that you worked back and forth to do the same thing...but it wasn't on the fuel filter block...

Did you find anything in your filters? (ULSD crud, etc?) I just picked up a set of filters for my 3525 just the other day.

 

[Foodplot]

My John Deere 5220 has a manual pump on top of the filter housing, with screw valves to bleed the filter and the injector pump. My Kubota 3400 is the easiest I've ever seen. There is a valve on the motor that you open, crank the motor for 30 seconds, close the valve and you're done. Don't even get your hands dirty.

 

[bindian]

Brandi,

The Case/IH 7110 (same basic Cummins engine that's in your Dodge pickup) we had had a plunger pump to bleed the air out of the fuel filters.

I can't remember if any of the other tractors did as well... probably not, I think I would remember if they did. I think the Ford 6610 that we had had a little lever on the fuel pump that you worked back and forth to do the same thing...but it wasn't on the fuel filter block...

Did you find anything in your filters? (ULSD crud, etc?) I just picked up a set of filters for my 3525 just the other day.

Brian,
In the primary (aft) filter bowl I found what could have been some gumming. Just a couple of specs, but enough to notice and clean out. The secondary bowl was clean. The filters them selves look to be clean and just had a "wet" coloring to them as opposed to the "dry" look the new filters had.
Also, upon further study, I read that the primer also bleeds the injector pump of air.
Having a plunger on my Cummins would be nice. The first time I changed it's filter, I had fuel squirting everywere. After that I learned to lower the filter and cap down slowly into the housing, then screw it on, then floor the pedal before starting, then pump it aggressively. Never had to bleed that system in almost 6 years.
hugs, Brandi

 

[bindian]

My John Deere 5220 has a manual pump on top of the filter housing, with screw valves to bleed the filter and the injector pump. My Kubota 3400 is the easiest I've ever seen. There is a valve on the motor that you open, crank the motor for 30 seconds, close the valve and you're done. Don't even get your hands dirty.

Foodplot,
Sorry, but I have your Kubota beat on the easiest. Our CFM engines on our Boeing 737s have hydro-mechanical units or HMC (fancy name for fuel injector) that have high enough pressurizes to fill the filter housing with fuel after changing and purge out the air. The only time we have problems is upon mechanical fuel pump failure, which is part of the HMC. Which just ruins your night.
hugs, Brandi

 

[xlr82v2]

My VW TDI has got you all beat on the easiest to change and bleed...you can do the eintire procedure in about 3 minutes.

You remove the old filter. Then install the new filter in the holder. Fill the new filter with diesel fuel. Reinstall the lines. Start the engine and drive away. It's an autobleed system. Works like a champ. The engine has never even stumbled after a filter change. Great engine. Brandi's CFM's might be easier, except for the safety wire

 

[bindian]

My VW TDI has got you all beat on the easiest to change and bleed...you can do the eintire procedure in about 3 minutes.

You remove the old filter. Then install the new filter in the holder. Fill the new filter with diesel fuel. Reinstall the lines. Start the engine and drive away. It's an autobleed system. Works like a champ. The engine has never even stumbled after a filter change. Great engine. Brandi's CFM's might be easier, except for the safety wire

Brian,
There is no saftey wire. 6 bolts screw into the filter housing on the CFM. You have to disconnect lines on your TDI? I just unscrew the cap on the housing and the filter is retained in the cap. I think I will time the actual change next time. You do it also.
hugs, Brandi

 

[xlr82v2]

Will do! although, if you have no safety wire, then I do think the CFM's might be the easiest... unfortunately though, I haven't seen a tractor yet that could utilize all of the performance available from a CFM56....

 

[bindian]

Will do! although, if you have no safety wire, then I do think the CFM's might be the easiest... unfortunately though, I haven't seen a tractor yet that could utilize all of the performance available from a CFM56....

Brian,
Your forgetting about going up the stairs and pulling the fire handle after you pull the fire bottle breaker and tag it.
You need to watch the professional tractor pullers. They are getting close to a CFM. Most I have seen is 3 turboshafts tied to one tranny. But I need to add.........we need more RED represented at the pulls besides International!
hugs, Brandi

 

[xlr82v2]

On the 737, does pulling the fire handle blow the bottle also? On the Learjet, pulling the fire handle only shuts off pneumatics, hydraulics, and fuel, and arms the fire bottles (2). Then, each bottle has a pushbutton to fire it. The halon will go to whichever engine the T handle is pulled on.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking of the pullers... A few years ago I saw one with a pair of Allison T56 turboshafts on it... each of those should have been good for at least 4000 hp if they were healthy. That guy didn't do so well though... I think he didn't have the tractor heavy enough, or just had TOO much power... couldn't get hooked up. Those Allisons had the prettiest blue flame coming out of the stacks though... and they were QUIET!! (compared to the blown BB V8's).

 

[bindian]

On the 737, does pulling the fire handle blow the bottle also? On the Learjet, pulling the fire handle only shuts off pneumatics, hydraulics, and fuel, and arms the fire bottles (2). Then, each bottle has a pushbutton to fire it. The halon will go to whichever engine the T handle is pulled on.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking of the pullers... A few years ago I saw one with a pair of Allison T56 turboshafts on it... each of those should have been good for at least 4000 hp if they were healthy. That guy didn't do so well though... I think he didn't have the tractor heavy enough, or just had TOO much power... couldn't get hooked up. Those Allisons had the prettiest blue flame coming out of the stacks though... and they were QUIET!! (compared to the blown BB V8's).

Brian,
Two engine fire bottles for the two engines. Putting the fire handle for #1 engine shuts everything off and arms the bottles. Turn the fire handle to the left and #1 bottle blows. Then wait to see if the fire is out...I think 30 seconds...then turn the fire handle the other direction and #2 bottle blows. So each time we pull a fire handle, we need to pull the circuit breaker (and collar it with an orange collar) that arms the squib to fire so some bozo doesn't accidently turn a handle and fill your face with fire agent. I would imagine it would ruin your night. Now for the built is trap for Douglass experienced mechanics (or pilots) transitioning to Boeing equipment. On the DC-9, you didn't have to turn on the battery switch to pull a fire handle and shut everything off. Say on an engine change with no power on the aircraft. Now do the same thing on a Boeing 727 and disconnect the fuel line and you will have a ton of jet fuel on you. The 3 holer needs the battery switch on for all the valves to close when the fire handle is pulled. I know, yes, I did exactly that on a 727 Freighter one weekend a long, long time ago.
hugs, Brandi

 

[xlr82v2]

Ahhh, yes... there's nothing like the sweet fragrance of "eau du Jet" all over you for an entire shift. Whenever someone would put some on, I would always say, "smells like money!!"

If you work in Aviation long enough, you'll eventually get a bath in it... It's a rite of passage! Same with the blue juice.

 

[bindian]

Ahhh, yes... there's nothing like the sweet fragrance of "eau du Jet" all over you for an entire shift. Whenever someone would put some on, I would always say, "smells like money!!"

If you work in Aviation long enough, you'll eventually get a bath in it... It's a rite of passage! Same with the blue juice.

Brian,
I would rather get drenched in Skydrol. Jet fuel is really toxic. Leave it on long enough and you will have a rash. Rite of passage?....right of death. I was TDY in Fairbanks, Alaska one December with Air Logisitics doing sheetmetal and I was told about a mechanic that froze to death laying under a Bell 206 when he forgot to drain the fuel bladder before removing the boost pump in the belly. 20 below zero, he didn't last two minutes. You gotta respect aviation or your career will be short. Of couse, I am preaching to the choir.
hugs, Brandi

 

[RalphVa]

My 2004 JD 4010 has no hand pump. It's self bleeding. No problems changing out the filter 2 or 3 times so far.

My old Benz has a hand pump that you use to bleed both the pre filter and main filter. The main filter vents back to the fuel tank. You just pump until you hear no noise in the line going back to the fuel tank. Only time I ever had any trouble was when the hoses connecting the metal lines from the fuel tank to the hand pump inlet developed some radial cracks (after about 15 years). Had to replace the 3 hoses between the metal lines and the fuel tank for the same reason shortly thereafter. Those "new" lines are now 10 years old already.

Ralph

 

[xlr82v2]

Brian,
I would rather get drenched in Skydrol. Jet fuel is really toxic. Leave it on long enough and you will have a rash. Rite of passage?....right of death. I was TDY in Fairbanks, Alaska one December with Air Logisitics doing sheetmetal and I was told about a mechanic that froze to death laying under a Bell 206 when he forgot to drain the fuel bladder before removing the boost pump in the belly. 20 below zero, he didn't last two minutes. You gotta respect aviation or your career will be short. Of couse, I am preaching to the choir.
hugs, Brandi

You'd take Skydrol over JetA? Wow... not me...I can feel Skydrol start burning in just a minute or so if I get it on my skin. Skydrol will remove Imron paint!! I'm with you on the JetA rash thing though... I used to always have a rash under my wristwatch from just a drop of Jet fuel getting under it or something. I always had a spare uniform in my car, just in case!! In my current position, that doesn't happen nearly as often though .

 

[bindian]

You'd take Skydrol over JetA? Wow... not me...I can feel Skydrol start burning in just a minute or so if I get it on my skin. Skydrol will remove Imron paint!! I'm with you on the JetA rash thing though... I used to always have a rash under my wristwatch from just a drop of Jet fuel getting under it or something. I always had a spare uniform in my car, just in case!! In my current position, that doesn't happen nearly as often though .

That's my point. With Skydrol, you know it is there almost immediately. A quick trip to your tool box for your Castor Oil to wipe on your skin and a change of cloths and all is fine. Jet Fuel is sneaky, if you don't smell it, it just does a long slow burn, usually about the time the rash starts.
hugs, Brandi

 

[xlr82v2]

Yeah... but if you had to take a BATH in it... oooooohhhh... the thought of a Skydrol bath just gives me the willies...

For those of you who don't know what we're talking about... Skydrol is a fire resistant synthetic hydraulic fluid for aircraft that has an extremely high ignition temperature. It's some nasty stuff to work with... if you get it on your skin, you'll feel it start to "burn" in a matter of minutes... It will dissolve and remove Imron paint, which is some pretty tough paint...

 

[bindian]

Yeah... but if you had to take a BATH in it... oooooohhhh... the thought of a Skydrol bath just gives me the willies...

For those of you who don't know what we're talking about... Skydrol is a fire resistant synthetic hydraulic fluid for aircraft that has an extremely high ignition temperature. It's some nasty stuff to work with... if you get it on your skin, you'll feel it start to "burn" in a matter of minutes... It will dissolve and remove Imron paint, which is some pretty tough paint...

An old ex Texas International (they had the biggest fleet of DC-9s of all airlines) Maintenance Instructor told me once skydrop will torch at 3,000 psi. He said Monsanto had a film of it torching off. Funny thing..........that's the pressure airliners have their hydraulic systems at. He also said Monsanto sold the airlines a bill of goods on the Skydrol to replace 5606 hydraulic fluid, which was used forever and by everyone. While 5606 was being replaced by Skydrol in the hydraulic systems.............5606 was still in use in the seat recline actuators on the DC-9s on all passenger seats.
But that was back in the 80s even before flame retartdent seats.
hugs, Brandi

 

[flusher]

I changed fuel filters on my Mahindra 6520 today. On the forward filter assy., there is a primer to pump while cracking open the banjo fitting to bleed the air out. On pre WWII aircraft, this was called a wobble pump, but was used to prime the engine to start. It was sweet just kneeling there and pumping the primer while cracking the banjo open and closed. On my old Ford 3055, you had to crack the filter bowl loose and then key the engine over. Do other brands use a primer on the fuel filter, or is this an Indian thing? I don't think the 10 series Mahindra's have a primer.
hugs, Brandi

My brand new Mahindra 5525 has the same type of fuel bleed arrangement as your 6520.

And my 1964 MF-135 diesel has a priming lever on the primary fuel pump that you use to bleed the air out of the fuel system. The primary fuel pump is a low pressure, cam-operated pump that supplies fuel to the injector pump through the dual fuel filters and settling bowl.

 

[bindian]

My brand new Mahindra 5525 has the same type of fuel bleed arrangement as your 6520.

And my 1964 MF-135 diesel has a priming lever on the primary fuel pump that you use to bleed the air out of the fuel system. The primary fuel pump is a low pressure, cam-operated pump that supplies fuel to the injector pump through the dual fuel filters and settling bowl.

Flusher,
Kewl Beans!
hugs, Brandi