windrow inverters

Robert_in_NY · Mar 10, 2006

I don't know why the bigger cutters don't lay larger swaths. Some do but not to the extreme of the 9' cutter. I would think the biggest limiter would be the conditioner rolls. If you make them too big then you will have problems. Also, for the most part the big cutters are used by dairys. They chop most of their hay so it doesn't have to dry down like us. But again, I am not sure why they don't make a big unit that lays a big swath.

If you use the right equipment you can beat the weather to an extent. The larger the swath and better the rake is two things to help reduce drying time. Tedding is one of the biggest helpers for areas with problems drying hay. If you just cut the hay and left it lay in NY you would rake it two days later and have to rake again before you bale it the next day. If you ted it the second day it will take off a half to full day of dry time. The rotary rakes help fluff up the windrow also which helps with air flow again speeding up dry time. So using the right equipment helps but it still requires mother nature to cooperate.

As for me, I run a thrower on my baler. My dad usually runs wagons if I taking them to my barn but sometimes he runs the baler also. If I was to start from scratch, I would build a 20' high barn, buy a decent self propelled NH stack wagon and a good high capacity baler with a quarter turn chute and go at it that way. I have too much money tied up in kicker wagons and the thrower is one more piece of equipment that I have to maintain.

Keep in mind that the fields I bale are a couple miles away from my barn so I need to be able to haul hay fast and the kicker racks are the best way to do that right now. If I have to haul the racks very far then I hire a kid to stack the hay in the rack as I bale. Doing this allows me to put a couple hundred bales on a 8x18 rack and a few more on the 9x18's.

Are you currently haying or are you thinking of getting into it?

jimg · Mar 11, 2006

>>Also, for the most part the big cutters are used by dairys. They chop
>>most of their hay so it doesn't have to dry down like us. But again,
>>I am not sure why they don't make a big unit that lays a big swath.
Its funny you should mention this in light of the article I posted above...it was done by Cornell in cooperation w/ NYS no less. I suppose though conventional wisdom was to windrow and now that seems to be passe. How do your bales fare being run thru a kicker? Ive heard they can be destructive.

>>I would build a 20' high barn, buy a decent self propelled NH stack >>wagon and a good high capacity baler with a quarter turn chute and
>>go at it that way.I have too much money tied up in kicker wagons >>and the thrower is one more piece of equipment that I have to
>>maintain.
Ive been thinking about both ways and havent come to any conclusion...thanx for the input! I guess its a matter of which set of problems is easier to manage....nothing is perfect (or rarely so).

>>Keep in mind that the fields I bale are a couple miles away from
>>my barn so I need to be able to haul hay fast and the kicker racks
>>are the best way to do that right now.
Thats a ways...how many bale baskets do you own and how fast can you fill them?

>>Are you currently haying or are you thinking of getting into it?
Not currently...Im doing all the homework I can right now so I can go on my own in the future. Ive done all of the steps exc plan and that not all together or in a single farm operation. Its sort of a patchwork if you will of experience. Its conversations like this which fill in the gaps and make sense of otherwise disjoint steps. My plan is to do hay only (instead of animals) and do that well.

Charolais · Mar 11, 2006

I cut and condition with an 820 JD. I can spread the total width of 9 ft. But I keep that to about 8 ft. so I don't drag cut hay under the shoe at the wobble box. The 820 has a steel flap right behind the rollers so it can divert the hay straight to the ground. The hood on the rear is never used when I spread the hay out.

>>Under what circumstances would you break this routine and do more?<<

Some years we may have weeks on end of rain in May. That will throw cutting in to June. If the temp. is in the high 90's + longer days of sunshine I can sometimes cut one day and bale the next. I will drop an extra 5-7 acres per day then.

>>Prior to the 254 what were you doing?<>Day 3 then is rake in the AM and immediately afterward bale?<<

Yes. And on day three if there's no dew I can sometimes bale by 11 am. I'll add: This will only work if the hay has been crimped good. I run the 820 conditioner with all the pressure it will do. It has three settings and I use the one with the most pressure. The 820 setting isn't like other conditioners I've used in the past. The highest pressure setting does not crush hay, it just crimps. All of my hay is Fescue/Orchard grass/ clover mix. And I round bale.

I only make one cutting per year. I have all my fields fenced in,crossed fenced with waterers and the cows take care of it after I get the first cutting.

Just a note: I'm not trying to talk you out of an inverter. Just listed a reason or two why they aren't used much in this area. As it's been said in this thread a couple of times,each area of the country is different and will use different equipment. This is just what works for me and my climate.

Robert_in_NY · Mar 11, 2006

I do not have any trouble with the kicker destroying bales. I have heard that if you use poly twine and a bale sits right at the edge of the thrower for any lenght of time it will burn the string off. I use sisal and that is not a problem.

Running a thrower is not that difficult. You just have to use common sense. When you start to fill a wagon you keep the thrower set at a lower power. There is no need to throw the bales against the rack and beat them and the wagons up. As the wagon fills you adjust the throwers power to land on top of the pile in the wagon and roll to the back. It is much easier on the bales. But if you make good tight bales then you don't have a problem either way. Loose bales will get beat up though but they are no good for anything anyway so you don't want them.

The wagons I use are not bale baskets (they are what hook straight to the baler and there is a chute that leads the hay up to the top of them and they dump the load where you want to. I use standard kicker racks. Just a hay wagon with 3 sides and a front gate. I have five kicker wagons and am going to build one this summer if time allows.

I am like you, all I do is hay (well some tillage now as I am expanding to the straw market). My main market is horse hay and small square bales. I do some times have request to do round bales in which case I rent a round baler from my NH dealer. I will suggest you try and develop a great relationship with your local dealer if you don't have one already. When it comes to haying it is very important to be able to show up in the middle of the day with a breakdown and have the mechanics drop what they are doing to help you out so you can get back to haying. I am still learning about my baler and am lucky to be able to run it to my dealer at a moments notice (1 mile away from my fields) if I need help locating a problem or getting a part. All of my hay equipment is Ford, NH and Gehl so that I can get parts fast and easy from my closest dealer.

jimg · Mar 11, 2006

>>I cut and condition with an 820 JD. I can spread the total width of 9
>>ft.
From what I can find this is a sicklebar mower isnt it? I couldnt find the total width of cut though.
If you used a disc mower would you be able to finish mowing faster? It seems that mowing more isnt an option in this case b/c of baling time and labor issues. So, Im figuring that a disc mower wouldnt pay for itself in your situation. Do I understand this correctly?

>>The 820 has a steel flap right behind the rollers so it can divert the
>>ay straight to the ground. The hood on the rear is never used when
>>I spread the hay out.
What is the 'hood' used for and why would you choose not to use it? That is, what function does it perform that you dont want?

>>Some years we may have weeks on end of rain in May.
I understand weather can really mess things up but one of the subjects Im trying hard to figure out is how to move as quickly from mowing to baling even in less than ideal weather. If I cut at optimal time then I get most nutritious hay which is what Im after. Maybe theres just no way short of appling preservative during baling...but Id rather not. I had also considered making baleage in the event of bad weather just so I could harvest my crop at the right time. Id likely feel differently about it if I was going to consume most of the hay myself but all of my crop is going to be sold and Id like it to be high quality.

>>If the temp. is in the high 90's + longer days of sunshine I can
>>sometimes cut one day and bale the next. I will drop an extra 5-7
>>acres per day then.
VA in summer is pretty humid and even so youre able to bale in 2 days...wow!!

So the area you mow depends primarily on what youre able to bale before bad weather comes? If you mow another 5-7 acres why not 10 or 12? Just trying to understand how you figured 5-7 instead of more....

>>Yes. And on day three if there's no dew I can sometimes bale by
>>11 am.
Another wow....It sounds then like you really bale in 2 and change instead of 3.

>>does not crush hay, it just crimps.
Are the rollers rubber of steel? Are they the chevron paterrn or straight grooves?

>>All of my hay is Fescue/Orchard grass/ clover mix. And I round
>>bale.
Since you mentioned it Ill tell you this...my plan is to setup in VA. However Im thinking more N and E b/c Id like to grow Timothy and that just doesnt do well in your area...or so says the ag buletins and climate maps Ive looked at.

I thought you were sq baling...Im sure rds cut down on labor for sure. Do you leave them in the field or move them? How many are you making/yr? B/c of my market Im going to sq bale primarily.

>>I only make one cutting per year.
If you wanted have many cuts/yr could you do?

>>Just a note: I'm not trying to talk you out of an inverter.
No problem...like I said I really appreciate all of the input (very much!). I want to hear what you have to say and why. So, dont hold back pls....I really want to hear whether it matches my ideas or not.

jimg · Mar 11, 2006

>>I am like you, all I do is hay (well some tillage now as I am
>>expanding to the straw market). My main market is horse hay and >>small square bales.
Then my operation will be very similar to yours...this is mainly the market Im after.

Whats getting you into the straw market? What sor of straw and what are you doing w/ the grain you get off it? I looked a bit into this and theres a HUGE amt to know and understand about grain farming...enough so that I decided against it (at least for now).

>> I do some times have request to do round bales in which case I
>>rent a round baler from my NH dealer.
Those rd bales would be off your farm are is this custom work for someone else? Round bales usually mean cattle feed...is this the case?

>>I will suggest you try and develop a great relationship with your >>local dealer if you don't have one already.
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Oh yes...that was HIGH on my list. In NH my NH dealer was esp good about dropping by even though my operation there was tiny. His field mechanics were excellent too and were willing to show and teach as they worked...I learned loads from one particular mechanic....a very bright guy.

>>When it comes to haying it is very important to be able to show up
>> in the middle of the day with a breakdown and have the mechanics
>> drop what they are doing to help you out so you can get back to
>>haying.
I worked for a farm that wasnt willing to call for mechanics (for whatever reason) and that job was murder. On one afternoon their knotters 'exploded' shutting the baler down and there was still hay in the field. Picking up loose hay after a full work day just wasnt fun.
So, Ive had first hand experience w/ this and will try very hard not to make that mistake.

>>to my dealer at a moments notice (1 mile away from my fields)
Thats extremely convenient!

>>All of my hay equipment is Ford, NH and Gehl so that I can get
>>parts fast and easy from my closest dealer.
Good pt...I decided to go w/ brands local to my farm so I could get parts when needed on short notice. Having a big *well stocked* dealer is very valuable. (As are parts counter guys who know my equipment.) When I 'interview' for a dealer I was going to ask about his parts inventory and how he was going to be able to support my operation.

jimg · Mar 11, 2006

One more thing...I really appreciate all the input you guys have given...thanx!!!

Charolais · Mar 11, 2006

>>From what I can find this is a sicklebar mower isnt it? I couldnt find the total width of cut though.
If you used a disc mower would you be able to finish mowing faster? It seems that mowing more isnt an option in this case b/c of baling time and labor issues. So, Im figuring that a disc mower wouldnt pay for itself in your situation. Do I understand this correctly?<<

Yes it's a sicklebar. It's 9'9" if I remember correct. I don't have the manual in front of me at the moment. I may have to go with a disc conditioner in years to come because it's getting harder to find the sickle type. I bought the 820 new that was left over from the prior year and as far as I know JD doesn't make the sicklebar now. The dealer wanted the machine moved and gave me a heck of a deal. I couldn't turn it down. And no the disc type conditioner wouldn't help me speed wise since I only cut what I can bale in a day.

Let me add this: I have a BIL that lives a few miles out of Roanoke Va. He uses a disc mower (not conditioned). He uses a tedder also. It takes his hay 5-6 days to dry with that set up and that's running the tedder over the hay twice. I would go nuts with that set up. I like to dry hay fast. Get it rolled up and out of the sun as fast as possible.

>>What is the 'hood' used for and why would you choose not to use it? That is, what function does it perform that you dont want?<<

I guess it's there for looks. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif In my case it is anyway. If I raise the flap behind the rollers the hood will windrow the hay in to a norrow row. I just don't use it. I guess it would be good for haylage.

>>So the area you mow depends primarily on what youre able to bale before bad weather comes? If you mow another 5-7 acres why not 10 or 12? Just trying to understand how you figured 5-7 instead of more....<<

I could cut more. I just like to keep up with what I cut in a day. Hay season in Va. can change in and hour. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Watch the weather at noon and zero chance of rain. Then by 4 pm it may rain 2 inches. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Two years ago I was lucky enough to have good weather around the 10th of May. I cut 20 acres per day for 3 days in a row and was able to have it all under a shed by day 7. Now that doesn't sound like a lot of hay but for one person it'll keep you busy for those 7 days. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't sell hay either. All I need is enough to make it through the winter.

>>Are the rollers rubber of steel? Are they the chevron paterrn or straight grooves?<<

They are rubber. I guess you could call them the chevron type. The treads are at an angle.

>>Since you mentioned it Ill tell you this...my plan is to setup in VA. However Im thinking more N and E b/c Id like to grow Timothy and that just doesnt do well in your area...or so says the ag buletins and climate maps Ive looked at.<<

I've seen some Timothy here but it won't survive very long in our hot dry spells from July in to Sept. Fescue is about the only grass that will hold up here.

>>I thought you were sq baling...Im sure rds cut down on labor for sure. Do you leave them in the field or move them? How many are you making/yr? B/c of my market Im going to sq bale primarily.<<

I'd plant the farm in trees if I had to square bale by my self. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif It's a good thing the round baler was invented when it was or the nations cattle inventory would be about a half million below what it is. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif What I roll in a year will vary. It depends on how much I have left from the prior year. But 3oo rolls would be max. I store all my hay under a roof setting on pallets. I also unroll the hay when feeding. I do everything I can to keep waste down. Hay is expensive to grow. I also use stockpile fescue to graze in the winter. I like for the cows to do as much grazing as possible. They can bale hay cheaper than I can. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

>>If you wanted have many cuts/yr could you do?<<

On a good year I could get three cutting if I didn't graze and fertilize heavy. Since I started stockpile grazing I cut back on the fertilizer in the spring and use more nitrogen in the fall. This year I need more hay so I fertilized more. We had a drought last summer that ran from July to mid October and I had to feed hay in that time frame so my hay supply is lower now that it's been in 4 years.

>>No problem...like I said I really appreciate all of the input (very much!). I want to hear what you have to say and why. So, dont hold back pls....I really want to hear whether it matches my ideas or not.<<

I suggest to watch the folks in the area you plan to grow hay and see what they do. It will differ from farm to farm some but climate will be one thing in common they all have to deal with. The weather has rule over your hay crop. I like the highest quality hay I can grow but I don't always get that. If I have to wait until June quality goes down and quantity goes up. I can get buy ok on lower quality but if you're selling hay I know you don't want that. Until we can control the weather we'll just take it as it comes. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Robert_in_NY · Mar 11, 2006

I was at first a little hesitant to get into the straw market but I have a lot of request for straw. I can sell the grain off to the local mills but currently I have to hire out the harvesting and hauling.

The round bales are always custom. However, I try to cut fields I know as cutting strange fields is a gamble and I don't like to gamble my equipment like that. The bales are used as mulch in the grape vineyards so the hay doesn't have to be high quality. I usually know if I have orders for round bales at the beginning of the year so if I have hay that gets rained on I round bale that. If I don't I cut a neighbors field that he doesn't use and help him out and myself as he doesn't have to mow it.

I don't usually have more then a couple hundred 4x4 round bales to do each year so buying a machine is out of the question. I just "rent" one from my dealer (they don't actually charge me rent but don't tell the lady who keeps the books /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif)

As for your question about the hood on the discbine. It is to make the hay into a windrow. Some guys like to windrow the hay as they cut it as it dries more of the ground out faster. Then ted it the next day before raking on the third day. It is there if you want it, otherwise if you want a wide swath you shut the gate down and it forces all the hay straight down and leaves a nice wide swath.

As for the discbine vs. haybine (sickle machine), think of it like this. The faster you get the hay on the ground the sooner you can bale it. Discbines are not as touchy as a sickle machine either. It is very rare to plug a discbine or have any problems what so ever. But if you damage a blade on a sickle machine it will cause you problems or if you have to run into a previously cut swath (middle of the field), the sickle machine does not like that. The discbine doesn't care one way or the other.

Charolais · Mar 11, 2006

I would love to see your hay operation in action. I traveled to Ohio and Pa. some years back and saw hay machinery I've never seen before.

I have a good friend in West Kentucky that grows hay to sell. He sends me pictures every so often of his operation. I can tell you there's a lot of equipment out there that's never made it to southern Va. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif He puts up about 30,000 square bales a year for the horse folks. He has 4 large chicken houses and uses the litter on the alfalfa/ orchard grass mix. He comes by to visit me every year now in Sept. He brought me a bale of his hay. I can say with out a doubt I've never seen that kind of quality of hay in southern Va. We just don't have the soil to grow that kind of hay.

I have to admire you folks that grow high quality hay to sell. You lay your reputation on the line each year for that quality. You must work hard and fast to capture that time frame to make good hay fast. It's become an art.

Robert_in_NY · Mar 11, 2006

It is a fun experience. I will try to get pictures this year of my current equipment in action. The only picture I have that I can find is this one. I bought the 7710 that month and rented the baler. This field was actually a nice field but a freak rain storm came in the morning I was going to bale. I woke up and it was pouring out. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

rambler · Mar 11, 2006

( I have a friend in NH that loves his bar rake but insists that wheel rakes make ropey windrows. Oh well....

)

You know there are 3 types of rake - the roll-a-bar basket rake like a NH 256; the wheel rakes, both old & new ones; and the rotary rakes that spin in a circle as the Krohn, NH 254, etc.

I think you are confusing the wheel rakes with a NH 254, which are very different designs.

Bar rakes are great. Wheel rakes are easier to get a lot done in a short time. The rotory rakes are the delux models that really handle hay well, but you pay for them in purchase & upkeep.

--->Paul

cowboydoc · Mar 12, 2006

Jim,

If you're in Washington alot of what you're being told doesn't apply. These guys, and doing a fine job, are talking about doing hay in high humidity conditions. In the west here you don't have to worry about those problems. You don't have the rain, no sun, and 90% humidity the east and south faces. You don't have to spread the hay way out to dry it as the dry conditions without humidity will suck the moisture right out of hay. Many times we bale hay at night to keep the leaves on the alfalfa and get moisture IN the hay. It's a completely different situation.

Robert_in_NY · Mar 12, 2006

Hi Richard. He stated during this discussion that he wanted to setup his farm operation in North East Virginia. At least I think that is what he typed.

Also, I thought the west coast of Washington was similar to the east coast where there is a lot of moisture. The only thing I can think of is Seattles reputation as always raining. But you are right, each area is different and I hope we made that point somewhere in this thread.

I had been waiting for you to chime in. How are things looking out your way this year? Twine prices increased but not as bad as I was told they would. I ended up paying $32 per bale of NH 9000 sisal. Not to bad compared to last year. Hopefully fuel prices will stay where they are but if they do move I hope it is down.

Charolais · Mar 12, 2006

I should call you "Old Lucky" /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I've read about haying in the middle of the country and westward. It's to easy. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One of the best drying methods here is cut 3 inches off the ground. It took use years to figure that out. When I got my first conditioner I found out real fast to set the shoes so it'll cut high. The grass below will hold the cut grass up and allow air under it. Back in the days of the mower we'd cut so close that if it rained before the hay dried it would plaster the hay to the ground. Wore out a lot of rake teeth getting that hay back up off the dirt.

jimg · Mar 12, 2006

>> don't sell hay either. All I need is enough to make it through the
>>winter.
You live in the lower Piedmont? If so I thought your winter was very mild and could graze your pastures all winter long.

>>I've seen some Timothy here but it won't survive very long in our
>>hot dry spells from July in to Sept. Fescue is about the only grass
>>that will hold up here.
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Of course thats why the horse people want it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Ive read every VT bulletin on cool/warm season grasses suited to the state and I think there are better choices BUT I want also to serve my market. I havent yet decided on exactly what Im going to plant but I know that fescue isnt much liked by the horse crowd. Ive also been looking at orchard grass and reed canary (I think thats what its called). I have some other choices too and the 5yr trial that VT published will probably figure into it heavily. In other words the jury is still very undecided.

>> I'd plant the farm in trees if I had to square bale by my self.
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Oh yes...I DO understand the feeling BUT I dont know many horse types that like round bales. So....its really not my choice. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

>>But 3oo rolls would be max.
Thats ALOT or a one man operation!

>>I store all my hay under a roof setting on pallets. I also unroll the >>hay when feeding.
Do you by any chance use the baler option that slices up the bale? I forget exactly what the various companies call them but it basically precuts the bale so when its feed out the waste is (supposed to be) less. Ive always wonder how popular that option is and how usful it is in practice.

>>I also use stockpile fescue to graze in the winter. I like for the cows
>> to do as much grazing as possible. They can bale hay cheaper than
>>I can. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
This figures into my q above about grazing your animals during the winter...I thought you wouldnt need to have dry hay at all in the winter...or very little.

>> had to feed hay in that time frame so my hay supply is lower now
>> that it's been in 4 years.
I see so does most of your hay get fed out in the summer vs winter? I knew the Shenandoah Valley was very dry but thought your area got plenty of rain during the summer.

>>If I have to wait until June quality goes down and quantity goes
>>up. I can get buy ok on lower quality but if you're selling hay I
>>know you don't want that. Until we can control the weather we'll
>>just take it as it comes. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Right...my primary goal is highest quality and I plan to test each crop and sell it off the paper work (at least use it as a selling pt.). Id also like quantity and I think I can get both or at least a good mix. At any rate I know its going to be HARD work.

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Ya Id love to find one of those weather controllers.

)

jimg · Mar 12, 2006

>>I was at first a little hesitant to get into the straw market but I
>>have a lot of request for straw. I can sell the grain off to the local
>>mills but currently I have to hire out the harvesting and hauling.
Do you make $$ from the grain? Are you growing oats or ?? Was it an option to buy and bale the straw from someone elses crop? How many yrs have you been growing grain? I looked into wheat (alot is grown in VA) and there was just WAY too much to know and understand. The volume was overwhelming to my eyes.

>>As for the discbine vs. haybine (sickle machine), think of it like
>>this. The faster you get the hay on the ground the sooner you can
>>bale it.
Right...however as in the beginning of this thread theres the issue of swath width vs cutter width. None of the disc mowers conditioners Ive found do better than about 50% (or so) cutter width to swath. OTOH the sickle mowers (most anyway) can put down 87% or better swath. From what Ive read the difference in dry time between 50% (or so) and 75% and above cutter width is large. Which is better then, getting the crop down fast with a slower dry rate or slower w/ a faster dry rate???

jimg · Mar 12, 2006

>>If you're in Washington alot of what you're being told doesn't apply.
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Im on the west side of the cascades...the WET side. From what little Ive seen to date very little dry hay is made over here b/c of the climate. Most of the really good hay comes from E of the mtns...and it IS good hay. OTOH they have to irrigate to get anything to grow in most of E WA. That and farms on the E side are HUGE. As I said earlier Im moving E before I get my operation started.

>>It's a completely different situation.
Oh yes...in everyway. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

One more thing...on this side the field trash from green pea harvest will be let to dry and baled. That is some nice lookng forage!!! Its the brightest green and perfect stuff Ive ever seen...much greener than the grass and alfalfa grown on the east side. I dont know what it sells for but the goat diary's are all over it. When I first saw this stuff I thought it was fresh only to find out it was dry!!!!

cowboydoc · Mar 12, 2006

He stated during this discussion that he wanted to setup his farm operation in North East Virginia. 

OOPs my apologies. I missed that part of the post. Things are going well Robert. Lost of moisture so things should be good as long as we don't get a drought again like last year. We just contracted 20,000 gallons of fuel. Our fuel guy said he thought fuel was going to be $3.00/gallon ag price by june because of the new low sulfur fuel. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif We never saw the twine price increases. I was at the farm store today and they are around $24.

Charolais yes leaving a little sure does help with getting the air under the hay. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Robert_in_NY · Mar 12, 2006

I have no idea what type of profit I will make on grain as this will be the first year growing oats. If you have a co-op near you, talk to them and tell them what you want to do. They can help you out a lot with spraying and such and advising you what not to do. The feed mill that we have dealt with for years has their own spray rigs to do custom work. I figure if I break even on the crop then the profit is in the straw. However, I should be able to make money both ways but only time will tell.

The farms that do grow grain bale their own straw. If I want straw I have to grow my own. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I run a Gehl 2340 (basically the same as the 2345) discbine. It is a 9' 2" cut and lays a 7' 7" swath. Gehl has a couple models that only move the swath in around one foot on either side. Gehl Discbine specs

If you have never run a sickle machine like a haybine you will not understand just how much nicer a discbine is. I have not had the pleasure of using a brand new haybine but the one I did use was well maintained and I sunk a lot of money into it to try and make it run smoother. I spent a lot of time clearing clumps of hay out of the guards as it would build up and stop the reel. I don't think you will ever find anyone say they regret going to a discbine from a sickle based machine.