will this damage? hitch ball to drawbar

geish · Dec 24, 2005

We have some logs around our property that I need to drag around.

I was planning on attaching a hitch ball to the drawbar then using that to hook a clevis hook attached to a metal chain to drag the log around.

The chain, ball, and hook are strong enough. I was wondering if doing so would damage the drawbar/tractor in any way.

I don't know if what I'm pulling has to be on the same level as the drawbar, or if it could be lower such as the log on the ground that attached to the chain and hook setup.

Thanks in advance. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bird · Dec 24, 2005

The drawbar is exactly what you want to use to pull something like a log. And there's usually no problem with the log being below the drawbar, but naturally you have the consider the possibility of the log hanging on something and stopping, which can cause the tractor to rear up in some cases instead of just spinning its wheels. If you take it slow and easy, you should have no problem.

IslandTractor · Dec 24, 2005

I thought the point of using the drawbar rather than 3PT to tow a log is just so it should not cause the tractor to "rear up" when the log hits an obstruction. Seems to me if the rearward force is below the rear axle then the physics would not cause the tractor to rotate on the rear axle, which would be necessary for the front to raise up. Is it just a matter of degree?

California · Dec 24, 2005

( Seems to me if the rearward force is below the rear axle then the physics would not cause the tractor to rotate on the rear axle, which would be necessary for the front to raise up. )

But if you have perfect traction and the load won't move then the whole tractor will rotate around the rear axle, up and over backwards. As I posted a long time ago, a friend told me that was how his father became disabled.

Bird · Dec 24, 2005

Ed, the drawbar is the safest place to pull from, and while it's not a common occurrence (at least I don't think so), like California said, it's always possible for the tractor to rear up and go over backwards.

Cliff_Johns · Dec 24, 2005

( But if you have perfect traction and the load won't move then the whole tractor will rotate around the rear axle, up and over backwards. )

Of course, as stated, this is not possible as the load would HAVE to move or the tractor would have to slide backwards to allow the the drawbar to rotate underneath the tractor. The force from the load is pulling the front end DOWN. This is the simple physics of it.

To understand, take the situation to the extreme. Put the load fifty feet below the axle and ten feet behind the axle. Now lock the chain to a completely imovable object. draw the forces at work on a sheet pf paper and it's pretty obvious. For the tractor to roll over backwards, the attachment point on the drawbar has to move FORWARD more than fifty feet! But since the drawbar attachment point is attached to an imovable object, that means the tractor has to move backwards more than fifty feet instead. But the wheels are rotating forwards! Not going to happen.

Now think again about the tractor situation. The rules are the same, just the forces and distances are less.

Best I can guess is that in situations where this Seems to happen, the load hangs, then suddenly gives with a pop so there is momentairly no load on the drawbar at all. This still doesn't completely satisfy the equasions (since when the tractor hits the end of the chain again, the front end will come down hard), but it introduces some plausibility if changing slopes are involved or something.

Cliff

Henro · Dec 24, 2005

Of course, as stated, this is not possible as the load would HAVE to move or the tractor would have to slide backwards to allow the the drawbar to rotate underneath the tractor. The force from the load is pulling the front end DOWN. This is the simple physics of it 

I have come to the conclusion after reading different posts here at TBN that if the right conditions occur, it is indeed possible to have a tractor lift its front wheels off the ground when pulling something attached to the draw bar.

We all know that if the tires are locked to the ground, like if frozen in, or tied to something like a fence post at the rear of the tire, and the tractor is put into a forward gear, the tractor may rotate around the rear axle in a back flip.

But let's say chain is connected between the draw bar and a VERY large tree that is not going to move. Would a back flip be possible? Maybe. IF like Cliff said, the tractor could slide backwards a bit.

With great traction, two forces would come into play. One would be the tractor trying to pull forward, but since it can't move, and since it has great traction, it seems like it would want to rotate around the rear axle, lifting the front wheels.

But the draw bar being below the rear axle, would be offering a counter force to hold the front wheels down.

UNLESS the tractor could slide backwards. If the tractor can slide backwards, due to the mechanics of the system and the torque being applied to the rear axle, then the chain tied to the tree has a limited amount of holdback ability, so the draw bar has a limited amount of "counter torque" capability, and the tractor could/might/maybe tend to lift the front wheels and flip over backwards.

Some posts I have read here in the past made a believer out of me. I can see the possiblity, but don't know if I can prove it. Maybe someone else can.

One post that I remember described how when pulling a properly attached plow, the tractor being operated ran with the front tires up in the air. The farmer who owned the tractor came over to the guy operating it and asked him what he was doing. (sorry, can't remember the post, but it is here at TBN somewhere) He told the farmer it was the only way the tractor would pull the plow. Farmer tried to show him otherwise, but apparently the conditions were such that it worked the same way for the farmer...

Unlikely...perhaps so. Doesn't hurt to keep the possibility in the back of one's mind though... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

have_blue · Dec 24, 2005

You won't hurt your drawbar. It's probably the strongest hitching point on the entire tractor.

Since your drawbar is only a foot or so off the ground, it actually is on the same level as a log... if you use a fairly long chain.

I would rather use a hook or clevis, but if your ball has a large threaded end, it will be strong enough.

Here's my solution. Took an hour to make.

Changed wide inline pic to link

Merry Christmas to all!

Trev · Dec 24, 2005

( We have some logs around our property that I need to drag around.

I was planning on attaching a hitch ball to the drawbar then using that to hook a clevis hook attached to a metal chain to drag the log around.

The chain, ball, and hook are strong enough. I was wondering if doing so would damage the drawbar/tractor in any way.

I don't know if what I'm pulling has to be on the same level as the drawbar, or if it could be lower such as the log on the ground that attached to the chain and hook setup.

Thanks in advance. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

I'm not quite sure what part the hitch ball plays in all of this, but yes.. pulling from the draw bar is the correct way to pull. I generally just use something like an "Anchor Shackle" and leave it on the drawbar. Even with a rear implement attached, one can usually lift the implement high enough to get a straight pull with a chain hooked to the drawbar.

Bob

gotrocks · Dec 24, 2005

Bob, please tell me how you got the picture posted. It shows as 157000+ in size and I thought 100000 was limit. I also would like to know how to have the picture appear in the post without having to open attachment.
Thanks for the info.
 Merry Christmas

ericbx1500 · Dec 24, 2005

I'm missing something here? What are you attaching the drawbar too? Not your 3pt are you? Or is this the spot below my rear pto where it has a spot to add a hitch ball on the frame? Any photo's with a drawbar setup that shows the whole rear of the tractor?

NewToy · Dec 25, 2005

Blue,
I like that hook set-up you came up with. I think I'll have to get one of those going.

Thanks for the pic /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

ccsial · Dec 25, 2005

Assuming it is possible to flip the tractor, when the front wheels came up you simply push in the clutch (or get off the HST pedal). You'd have to be sleeping to get hurt.

RoyJackson · Dec 25, 2005

"Assuming it is possible to flip the tractor, when the front wheels came up you simply push in the clutch (or get off the HST pedal)"

Every safety article I've read on rear turn overs states one has less then a second to react...after that, the tractor has reached it's point of no return.

simonmeridew · Dec 25, 2005

When you pull a heavy load which is attached to a point below the (or acting on a force or moment below the axle) the harder the pull or force, the harder the force to pull the front axle/front of the tractor DOWN, not up. If you attach and pull from a point higher than the rear axle, that's how the front end will lift up.
If you are skidding out a log chained to the 3pth even though the hitch is lifted high, if the log is chained directly to the drawbar, if thefront end gets light and lifts, the log drops down and no longer acts as a weight to lift the front end. Where you run into trouble is if the log is chained a ways back there is no self correcting force.
They claim you can't act fast enough with the clutch to prevent a roll over.
simonmeridew

Bird · Dec 25, 2005

I know one can rear up and go over fast; guess it just depends on how quick you are. I remember seeing our little 1940 John Deere L rear up so high that I thought it was going over backward, and I think Dad did, too, but he already had his foot on the clutch and got it down in time; barely. I feel sure that if he hadn't already had his foot on the clutch, he'd have never been quick enough.

Berniep · Dec 25, 2005

I can remember farmers plowing with the front wheels bouncing off the ground almost all the way across trhe field and they steered with the brakes. Don't really know how the plows were attached. We changed over to complely no-till before I got old enough to run a plow I think the old plow has been used once in the last 20 years. Never heard of one going completley over.
Once in a whil while discing The old white would come up on me a little when it hit a patch of clay and the disc is pulled from the draw bar.

geish · Dec 25, 2005

( I'm missing something here? What are you attaching the drawbar too? Not your 3pt are you? Or is this the spot below my rear pto where it has a spot to add a hitch ball on the frame? Any photo's with a drawbar setup that shows the whole rear of the tractor? )

I'll post a pic when I take one.
I'm leaving the drawbar as-is. Attached to the tractor via the pin that secures it from the factory.
The 3pt. isn't involved in my situation in any way.

You know how the drawbar has a large diameter hole on it. I'll be attaching a hitch ball to it. I will then use that to attach the hook on to. The hook will have a trailing chain which will pull logs.

I really need to get my digital camera fixed.

Trev · Dec 25, 2005

(
You know how the drawbar has a large diameter hole on it. I'll be attaching a hitch ball to it. I will then use that to attach the hook on to. )

The ball will be handy, for sure, if you want to move trailers and so on. My experience, though, is that your chain will fall off with some regularity. But perhaps that's just my poor technique.. I often have to back up and get another angle on the pull, and having a chain with a snap hook which can't come off without humanoid assistance is easier. Your idea will certainly work, although I wonder if it's really optimal for what you plan to do.

You can also just stick the hook end of a chain through the hole in the drawbar.. for quick and easy jobs.

It's been so long since I've posted here that I hope I can still remember how to attach a pic! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Regards,
Bob

have_blue · Dec 25, 2005

( They claim you can't act fast enough with the clutch to prevent a roll over. )

This is true only if you're going way too fast. I usually skid at 1200 RPM in 3rd gear, which is probably 3-4 MPH. If I snag something at that speed, I should have 3-4 seconds to react... even if the engine didn't kill. So far I have hung up 4 or 5 times, never reared up. The tires usually spin or the engine kills. In the event neither happens, I'm guessing the engine would lose 200 RPM and the tractor would rear up in slow motion. I guess running at real high RPM, the tractor could get away from you in a hurry!

Safety first! There's no use in living dangerously just to save a minute or 2 skidding a log.