Will some tractor makers not survive?

[roadhunter]

A small part of the grain belt.

I thought Ohio was the rust belt?

 

[roadhunter]

Last frontier is Africa. If it takes off it could be massive market for right tractors. My guess is Mahindra is best positioned due to the fact that Indian market is similar to future Africa market. I used to work in rural India (on pipeline construction). Mahindra is the tractor of choice there. The Indian models are, by US standard, very basic and simple tractors somewhere between 20 and 100 HP. I asked why Mahindra is so popular and I was told that it takes the abuse better than competition.

This is true. Going to take a lot of Mahindras to farm that once they figure out how to install center pivots over there LOL.

I see Mahindra being popular in 3rd world countries because they are affordable, not because they are higher quality. Anybody can look at hoses, valves, fit, finish, wiring, etc and see the level of quality. Americans have more choices and expect higher standards which is why Mahindra is sold from a hodge podge of powersports, lawnmower, marine etc dealers as opposed to agricultural implement dealers like JD, NEw Holland, Kubota, etc..

 

[DavesTractor]

This is true. Going to take a lot of Mahindras to farm that once they figure out how to install center pivots over there LOL.

I see Mahindra being popular in 3rd world countries because they are affordable, not because they are higher quality. Anybody can look at hoses, valves, fit, finish, wiring, etc and see the level of quality. Americans have more choices and expect higher standards which is why Mahindra is sold from a hodge podge of powersports, lawnmower, marine etc dealers as opposed to agricultural implement dealers like JD, NEw Holland, Kubota, etc..

That's a broad brush with which you paint, but as there are no Mahindra dealers in Nebraska, your perspective may be different than in many other areas. I've been a Mahindra dealer for 12 years. I sell hundreds of tractors a year, and I am certainly not in the top 10 or probably no longer in the top 20 for top selling Mahindra dealers in the USA. Yes they started with a lot of hodge podge dealers and still have some. And true that the dealer network is not yet as developed, but there are quite a few single location Mahindra dealers selling $5-10M USD in annual sales. Nothing compared to a big JD multi-store location, but it is beyond the mom and pop size I think. So not all are mom/pop dealers, in fact fewer and fewer are.

John Deere has been refining their dealerships for over a century. Mahindra has been in the USA since the 90's. You have to start somewhere. Quite a few of the mom and pop stores turned into significant dealerships. Some of them failed to grow and have been or are being replaced.

As for quality, or at least fit and finish, it does vary across the line. I really like the Japanese built machines myself, but then again our market in California is a lot of small ranches, 5 acre home sites, retired guys not wanting to push a wheelbarrow, etc. Perfect for 20-35 HP tractors.

 

[roadhunter]

That's a broad brush with which you paint, but as there are no Mahindra dealers in Nebraska, your perspective may be different than in many other areas. I've been a Mahindra dealer for 12 years. I sell hundreds of tractors a year, and I am certainly not in the top 10 or probably no longer in the top 20 for top selling Mahindra dealers in the USA. Yes they started with a lot of hodge podge dealers and still have some. And true that the dealer network is not yet as developed, but there are quite a few single location Mahindra dealers selling $5-10M USD in annual sales. Nothing compared to a big JD multi-store location, but it is beyond the mom and pop size I think. So not all are mom/pop dealers, in fact fewer and fewer are.

John Deere has been refining their dealerships for over a century. Mahindra has been in the USA since the 90's. You have to start somewhere. Quite a few of the mom and pop stores turned into significant dealerships. Some of them failed to grow and have been or are being replaced.

As for quality, or at least fit and finish, it does vary across the line. I really like the Japanese built machines myself, but then again our market in California is a lot of small ranches, 5 acre home sites, retired guys not wanting to push a wheelbarrow, etc. Perfect for 20-35 HP tractors.

I'm basing my experience off of this region including Wyoming, Montana, Dakotas, Nebraska, NE Colorado, and Western Kansas. To say the dealer network is not developed is an understatement. It could certainly be different in other areas and I'm sure Mahindra can compete with the smaller lines of tractors for hobby farms and horse yuppies but I don't see them offering much competition for full sized farm tractors as they stop at 100 hp. Most real farmers in this country use much larger tractors for farming purposes. I'm not sure if that is going to be well suited for African farming as I picture that being on a really large scale requiring larger equipment which other manufacturers already offer. Sure you can just use more of them but at some point it's more efficient to use a full size farm tractor with larger implements.

 

[DavesTractor]

I'm basing my experience off of this region including Wyoming, Montana, Dakotas, Nebraska, NE Colorado, and Western Kansas. To say the dealer network is not developed is an understatement. It could certainly be different in other areas and I'm sure Mahindra can compete with the smaller lines of tractors for hobby farms and horse yuppies but I don't see them offering much competition for full sized farm tractors as they stop at 100 hp. Most real farmers in this country use much larger tractors for farming purposes. I'm not sure if that is going to be well suited for African farming as I picture that being on a really large scale requiring larger equipment which other manufacturers already offer. Sure you can just use more of them but at some point it's more efficient to use a full size farm tractor with larger implements.

I'm not at all trying to say that Mahindra is another JD. When you get into the big farms with lots of acres and big implements, Mahindra really has nothing to offer. 125 HP is a chore tractor in some areas. But keep in mind each time a section of land is broken up into 5 acre parcels, we have 128 potential new customer that need a tractor for their hobby farm or horse hobby. The volume is in that market, not in 300 HP tractors working 10,000 acres.

The areas you mentioned are indeed very lightly populated with Mahindra dealerships. It is quite a bit different in many other areas. And you are correct again in that they are not competing in the large farming sector. In your area, guys are farming large acreage and for them a 100 HP Mahindra would be a garden tractor! I have family in Idaho that farms a couple thousand acres (and there are guys there farming tens of thousands of acres) and I think their smallest "real" tractor is 185HP. They do have some 30-40 HP chore tractors.

Now come to California and you will see, in our specific area, that a 150-250 HP tractor would be worthless even in "real farming" since we are all orchards and vineyards. ~100 HP is about max usable or the tractor is just way, way too big. Mahindra has about zero penetration into the orchard market as the orchard/vineyard market requires very low profile tractors, and in the case of some vineyards they are wanting 100 HP and very narrow, sometimes 48" total width. Go up north and the blueberry guys need another specific tractor. It is interesting to travel around and see the different applications for tractors in the ag world.

I think when Africa gets to the point of needing more tractors, they will likely break into that culture somewhat as India and China have done. There will be a lot more small farms where a simple 50 HP 2wd tractor will be such a huge improvement over non mechanized methods. I think simple and inexpensive will rule for a while. If there are some big corporate farms, they may be able to afford and understand that a large tractor with large implements pays off, but to go from mostly manual labor to a several hundred thousand dollar investment for a large tractor and implements seems like a big step. I think we will see smaller steps. And keep in mind that one big harvester idles how many laborers compared to harvesting by hand?

 

[smstonypoint]

Out of curiosity, I checked the average size of farms in Africa.

"In the United States, the mean farm size is 178.4 hectares. In Latin America it is 111.7 hectares. In sub-Saharan Africa however the average size amounts to just 2.4 hectares. In Asia this figure is lower still: 1.8 hectares in South East Asia and 1.4 hectares in South Asia."

(A hectare = 2.47 acres.)

Industrial Agriculture and Small-scale Farming

Steve

 

[Redneck in training]

Out of curiosity, I checked the average size of farms in Africa.

"In the United States, the mean farm size is 178.4 hectares. In Latin America it is 111.7 hectares. In sub-Saharan Africa however the average size amounts to just 2.4 hectares. In Asia this figure is lower still: 1.8 hectares in South East Asia and 1.4 hectares in South Asia."

(A hectare = 2.47 acres.)


View attachment 485819

Industrial Agriculture and Small-scale Farming

Steve

I read somewhere recently Iowa full time farm size doubles about every 10 years while the number of farms stays about the same. What is happening? Farmer wants to retire but his children have no interest in farming. He sells the land but keeps 40-80 ac just for a hobby.

 

[ovrszd]

Out of curiosity, I checked the average size of farms in Africa.

"In the United States, the mean farm size is 178.4 hectares. In Latin America it is 111.7 hectares. In sub-Saharan Africa however the average size amounts to just 2.4 hectares. In Asia this figure is lower still: 1.8 hectares in South East Asia and 1.4 hectares in South Asia."

(A hectare = 2.47 acres.)


View attachment 485819

Industrial Agriculture and Small-scale Farming

Steve

Dang it,,,,, I'm slightly below average at 170 acres......

 

[ovrszd]

I read somewhere recently Iowa full time farm size doubles about every 10 years while the number of farms stays about the same. What is happening? Farmer wants to retire but his children have no interest in farming. He sells the land but keeps 40-80 ac just for a hobby.

Urban sprawl. Acreage owners that do not claim "farmer" status on their taxes. Understand, your data comes off the tax records.

No farmer I know retires and keeps 40-80 acres for a hobby. If he desires to still "farm", he keeps all of his land and farms. Or in the larger cases, keeps his land and rents it out. Still claims farmer status on his taxes so little change is noticed.

 

[holeycow]

Dang it,,,,, I'm slightly below average at 170 acres......

Bar chart is in hectares, so you are well below average my friend, lol.

Apparently, I am well above average though I don't feel that way most times, lol.