Will it work?

[ch1ch2]

I have a vintage JD 302. (@50HP) It originally had a bh and fel on it. It now has neither. I have an opportunity to buy a fel that is new. I believe it is a Case from a tractor of around 35 hp.
I have seen the schematics of the JD that show the FEL with closed center valves. I am thinking most new small tractor have open center valves.
Any ideas on making it work? I do not want to buy a new joystick set of valves, which would be the obvious way. Does anyone know if in fact the FEL does have open center or closed center valves in the joy stick?
I know this is asking a lot when I do not know the make and model of the FEL. It is 90 miles from here and I will not be there for another 2 weeks.

 

[J_J]

Your FEL cylinders do not care which type valves supplies the fluid.

If in fact the new FEL has open center valves, they might be convertible valves, where you simply add a Closed Center plug to the PB adapter.

If the valve is only open center, you will have to get a Closed Center valve.

Just match the valve flow to the tractor flow.

 

[Tx Jim]

ch1ch2
As you stated FEL valve used on a JD 302 needs to be closed center or have CC plug installed. Simple test is with FEL control valve return hose aimed in tractor hyd fill port and control levers in neutral no oil should exit hose when engine is running. Below is a photo of CC plug in case your not familiar with what one resembles.

 

[ch1ch2]

Sorry for the late reply. I was called out of town unexpectedly.
I have a little knowledge of hydraulics and very little experience. J_J, are you saying there is a good chance the joy stick has a PB and if it does all I need to do is install a plug?
Tx Jim, I like the concept but I would have to take my tractor to the seller's house and install the correct fitting/adaptors and hoses to his equipment to test.
I have left a message with the seller to get the model number of the few to help determine the type valves.

 

[Tx Jim]

Newer hyd FEL valves have a port for PBY or CC plug just so valve can be utilized for either OC or CC applications. A dedicated CC FEL valve does not need a PBY port or built in relief valve as pressure is controlled by stroke control valve in the hyd pump.

 

[J_J]

Sorry for the late reply. I was called out of town unexpectedly.
I have a little knowledge of hydraulics and very little experience. J_J, are you saying there is a good chance the joy stick has a PB and if it does all I need to do is install a plug?
Tx Jim, I like the concept but I would have to take my tractor to the seller's house and install the correct fitting/adaptors and hoses to his equipment to test.
I have left a message with the seller to get the model number of the few to help determine the type valves.

If the valve is PB capable, and used on CC system, the valve will need a PB adapter and a plug, or a CC plug, which is longer.

Show pic of valve , all sides if possible. Also indicate any markings by each port.

 

[ch1ch2]

Seller said it is a Case loader Model L340. I have not found any info on the internet yet.
I think I can get pics next week.

 

[ch1ch2]

I have found a digram that shows a PB line.
Does that help? I do not know how it would tie in. I my mine I see flow from the pump to the tank with some restriction to create back pressure on the line. The CC valve is tee'd into the line and when the valve opens, the flow due to back pressure, goes to the valve, to the cylinder, to another (non pressure) return to tank line.

 

[oldpilgrim]

I'd be more concerned that the hardware could be modified enough to mount to the tractor. The hydraulics are the least of your problem.

 

[ch1ch2]

I have steel and welders. Fit is not going to be a problem.

 

[Tx Jim]

If the valve is PB capable, and used on CC system, the valve will need a PB adapter and a plug, or a CC plug, which is longer.

Sorry J_J but a PB plug on a hyd valve on a JD 302 which came from factory with closed center hyd's positively will not operate correctly.

 

[Tx Jim]

I have found a digram that shows a PB line.
Does that help? I do not know how it would tie in. I my mine I see flow from the pump to the tank with some restriction to create back pressure on the line. The CC valve is tee'd into the line and when the valve opens, the flow due to back pressure, goes to the valve, to the cylinder, to another (non pressure) return to tank line.

As I previously stated a PB line on a CC hyd system such as a JD 302 will not allow hyd's to operate correctly. Please post your hyd schematic.

 

[J_J]

Sorry J_J but a PB plug on a hyd valve on a JD 302 which came from factory with closed center hyd's positively will not operate correctly.

Do you know for sure that the FEL valve is strictly a CC valve?

I simply said that if the valve is convertible what was necessary to convert the valve.

He is asking about the valve on the FEL anyway, which could be either.

If the valve on the FEL is a CC valve he does not have to modify anything.

If the FEL valve is open center and has PB port, then he needs what I said.

Enough now. Da**

 

[Tx Jim]

J_J as I stated a PB valve with or without a plug will not be correct on a JD CC system PERIOD & you stated "PB adapter with plug" or CC valve. I'll make a wager with you that a "PB adapter with a plug" installed in a FEL control valve will cause a JD 302 hyd system or any other JD with CC hyd's to heat & cavitate!!!!! I'm relatively positive a hyd valve on a 35 HP Case tractor will be open center.

J_J
Have you ever hands on diagnosed JD CC hyd heating & cavitation problems?? I did for over 10 yrs as a JD dealer service manager.

Enough now DANG!!!!

 

[J_J]

You mean that I can not make an open center valve into a CC valve by using a PB adapter and a plug, or a CC plug.

Da*****, I sure thought I could, and please explain why it will not work.

I just know you are going to try.

 

[Tx Jim]

If an OC adapter with a plug installed where hose is intended to fit will convert a spool valve to CC then why did engineers fabricate a CC adapter why not just install a plug? Notice the absence of the seal on 12C which is an open center adapter vs seal(parts key 10) on CC adapters(12A & 12B). Maybe the older type valves(60- late 80's) that I had experience with are different than convertible(oc io cc & vice-verse) valves built today.

 

[ch1ch2]

I am assuming there are no hard feelings between you two. Just assertively stating your opinions.
With that being the case, I am enjoying the read. I will surely learn something.

Tx Jim, I do not see an obvious place to install Pump or tank hoses to the valve. Do you recall where I should tap in or do you have a diagram? The pump is in front of the engine. It has hard metal lines going back to the transmission. The lines have treaded connectors at the pump but no obvious connection at the transmission.

 

[Tx Jim]

ch1ch2
No hard feelings on my end but I am hard headed. Please post a photo or numbers stamped on the valve.

 

[Tx Jim]

J_J
Please accept my apology.
After thinking more about PB adapters which came into wide use after I left dealership and I determined I was thinking incorrectly. Plug(parts key 12C) in photo I posted earlier isn't a PB adapter but simply a plug utilized before PB adapters were widely utilized.:mur::mur::mur:
After viewing close up of true PB adapter I see it has same type seal(encircled in blue) that if used in a CC configuration can fail causing CC to revert to OC. This seal that can fail on a CC adapter plug is what had me mixed up as I've previously in yrs gone by diagnosed several of their failures.
Again I apologize,Jim

 

[ch1ch2]

Tx Jim and J-J,
Thank you for your responses. I do not have the valve. I am trying to decide whether or not to buy the loader, if I can make it work. The seller is 100 miles East of me and my tractor is 120 miles West of me. When I first posted this thread the tractor was here at my home. I get form the previous posts that I will be able to make the loader work without buying a new valve. THANK YOU both J_J AND Tx Jim!