Why SUDT???

[David_Kb7uns]

When I did the 50 hours on the GL3130GST, and I was guessing it was filled with just UDT from the dealer, but there was a noticed improvement in the speed of the shifting after filling with SUDT. Also have heard about the RTVs not liking the UDT and the hydro stalls out easier, so for all the Hydros and the GST I will use SUDT without question. If you have a gear tractor in most climates UDT is ok.

David Kb7uns

 

[taborekle]

Just to point out this isn't about $.50...I'll share this from a post on the oils and lubricants thread:

It's time to change the HST fluid so I started reading up on all the posts about what's best. Decided to call the Kubota dealer and ask their price. Gal behind the counter told me roughly $75 per 5 gallon pail for UDT and about $145 for SUDT. She asked me if I was putting it in an excavator. She told me that only excavators required the SUDT. Then kinda quiet like she told me that she sends a lot of customers down to Car Quest to get their SUDT equivalent. She told me to tell the guy behind the counter that I was there to get some of the THF they sell to her company.

The L4330 takes 11 gallons...so the price difference is substantial.

Compared to the thousands that you have invest in you're L4330, it's a pittence. My take after reading the horror story on the oil/lub forum/thread, is that as long as MY kubota is under warrenty, then I'll use the Kubota recommended SUDT.

(imagine) I'm patting the side of my B2920. "There there baby, that man won't convince me to use anything but the good stuff in you." pat pat pat

 

[bmiker]

"There there baby, that man won't convince me to use anything but the good stuff in you." pat pat pat
The man ask a intelligent question and gets this silly post. Only opinions and no good answer.

 

[Marcussen]

My owners manual says to use UDT or SUDT. I had the sightglass crack and lost fluid. I went to my dealer and bought the sightglass but they where out of SUDT and only had 5 gallons buckets of UDT, (I used SUDT at my 200 hour service) so since I needed the tractor I bought a fluid that said it was a replacement for Kubota UDT and SUDT (Mystik JT-5) since I only needed one gallon. I can't tell any difference, But at my 400 hour fluid change I will use SUDT again.

 

[LBrown59]

"There there baby, that man won't convince me to use anything but the good stuff in you." pat pat pat
The man ask a intelligent question and gets this silly post.
1*Only opinions and no good answer.

1*A man on a thread on TBN destroyed his almost new tractor trying to save a few bucks on fluid.
I think using what you know is the recommended stuff is a very good answer.

I still have to ask why risk a 20 to 30 thousand tractor to save 50 cents on a quart of oil?
So far I'v not gotten a good answer to that question!

 

[newbury]

1*A man on a thread on TBN destroyed his almost new tractor trying to save a few bucks on fluid.
I think using what you know is the recommended stuff is a very good answer.

I still have to ask why risk a 20 to 30 thousand tractor to save 50 cents on a quart of oil?
So far I'v not gotten a good answer to that question!

1* Show the thread
2* Who is talking a price difference of $10 for a 5 gallon pail? Or 50 cents a quart? Even Messicks wants about $30 more for a pail.
3* As posted several times - not everyplace sells SUDT

 

[PERCTK]

$29,000 worth of a new Kubota and you are asking about how to save $100 on and oil change that takes place every 400-500 hours. Might want to put those savings on the oil in a slush fund for that HST that you maybe needing after a few years of using the tractor supply oil.
In case yours is not available. Page 4 of my warranty booklet specifically states " The Warranty does not cover failures caused by: Use of non Genuine Kubota parts" , Your tractor supply reciept won't work if a failure has taken place.

I checked TSC Travelrs Hydraulic Fluid $39.99 for 5 gallons
Checked with Kubota Super UDT is $72.97 for 5 gallons
Also checked on Standard UDT at $53.86 for 5 gallons

On you your tractor this is less than $100 per oil change to use the recomended oils, seems like a no brainer to me!!

There is a cost of ownership with any equipment purchase, that cost increases dramatically if the proper maintenace with the correct parts does not take place at the correct time.
Good Luck

 

[johnk]

I live in a cold climate but even if I didn't I would go with the Super UDT because it was what the maintinance recommended... Faster hydraulics in the cold weather is a plus.

 

[TUG HILL ADDICT]

Fascinating...491 reads, 27 replies, not one empirical statement regarding the difference between SUDT and any other Hydralic Fluid.

Even the Kubota dealer that replied could not state what makes SUDT better than any other Hydr. Fluid.

I'm not asking these questions to pass judgement on anyone who purchases SUDT.

Simply wondering why SUDT is better? Hydr. Fluid is a very thin viscosity petroleum product. Unless I'm missing something the oil is not lubricating like a motor oil does.

So again...any empirical statements regrading why SUDT?

The fact that an owners manual states you should use it COULD just be simple marketing.

 

[TUG HILL ADDICT]

$29,000 worth of a new Kubota and you are asking about how to save $100 on and oil change that takes place every 400-500 hours. Might want to put those savings on the oil in a slush fund for that HST that you maybe needing after a few years of using the tractor supply oil.
In case yours is not available. Page 4 of my warranty booklet specifically states " The Warranty does not cover failures caused by: Use of non Genuine Kubota parts" , Your tractor supply reciept won't work if a failure has taken place.

I checked TSC Travelrs Hydraulic Fluid $39.99 for 5 gallons
Checked with Kubota Super UDT is $72.97 for 5 gallons
Also checked on Standard UDT at $53.86 for 5 gallons

On you your tractor this is less than $100 per oil change to use the recomended oils, seems like a no brainer to me!!

There is a cost of ownership with any equipment purchase, that cost increases dramatically if the proper maintenace with the correct parts does not take place at the correct time.
Good Luck

The reason I can afford a $29,000 tractor is because I do not waste money...I watch every dollar. You live your life your way, I'll live mine my way.

Instead of busting my ba!!s can you provide an empirical answer to the question? The tractor is out of warranty so that fear is irrelevant

 

[TUG HILL ADDICT]

$29,000 worth of a new Kubota and you are asking about how to save $100 on and oil change that takes place every 400-500 hours. Might want to put those savings on the oil in a slush fund for that HST that you maybe needing after a few years of using the tractor supply oil.
In case yours is not available. Page 4 of my warranty booklet specifically states " The Warranty does not cover failures caused by: Use of non Genuine Kubota parts" , Your tractor supply reciept won't work if a failure has taken place.

I checked TSC Travelrs Hydraulic Fluid $39.99 for 5 gallons
Checked with Kubota Super UDT is $72.97 for 5 gallons
Also checked on Standard UDT at $53.86 for 5 gallons

On you your tractor this is less than $100 per oil change to use the recomended oils, seems like a no brainer to me!!

There is a cost of ownership with any equipment purchase, that cost increases dramatically if the proper maintenace with the correct parts does not take place at the correct time.
Good Luck

Your manual also states you are to use the seat belt at all times...so I guess your tractor never moves without you belted in eh?

 

[rdsaustintx]

I checked TSC Travelrs Hydraulic Fluid $39.99 for 5 gallons
Checked with Kubota Super UDT is $72.97 for 5 gallons
Also checked on Standard UDT at $53.86 for 5 gallons

So assuming 10 gallons/300 hours, the upgrade from TSC to UDT is $.09/hour.

Upgrading from UDT to SUDT would be $.13/hour.

Sorry, calculator was just sitting there. I can afford SUDT.

 

[grossgary]

THA - i do agree that this is a suspicious kind of game they're playing with fluids. They could easily be deriving those profits intentionally...not that the SUDT isn't good stuff...but necessary will always be questionable. I gaurantee the upper level management knows the profits of this transition. Sucessful companies that have good branding can do this. Loyal customers and great products.

That being said - you likely will not get an answer, that is probably proprietary information which they will protect. It's worth millions of dollars to them, they're not just going to publically post it. When working in industry there are all sorts of proprietary arrangements where information is protected.

This has been and will always be a debate.

I have an off brand in mine only because a hose was leaking and I wasn't about to dump SUDT ont he ground, but if I ever get around to changing the fluid I might get SUDT just to quiet the whinning as my tractor seems like it could be quieter. But who knows, it's the only tractor I've ever owned I don't know any better.

 

[Volfandt]

THA -
That being said - you likely will not get an answer, that is probably proprietary information which they will protect. It's worth millions of dollars to them, they're not just going to publically post it. When working in industry there are all sorts of proprietary arrangements where information is protected.

This has been and will always be a debate.

Kubota does protect the proprietary makeup of SUDT.
I got this response from Kubota approx 4 months ago.

Thank you for contacting Kubota Tractor. Our Super UDT fluid is unique to the industry. It is a special blend that is different than our standard UDT fluid, and most others in the market today.
The only information we are allowed to release is this.
The SAE viscosity Grade is 10W-20
ISO Grade is 46
Flash Point 183

Thanks again.

Another poster recieved this response:

Here's the short e-mail response I received today with my original question quoted below it (that's how they sent it back to me).

Super UDT is a natural oil. Not Synthetic.

Kubota Customer Service.

Theres your basic info.

What I've observed on several tractor forums over the course of 4 yrs is that SUDT has never caused any HST failures or problems and in most cases either eliminated or quieted the whine in an HST that previously used UDT and/or an aftermarket brand of a UDT equivalent.

I have read where some have posted that UDT seemed to run cooler in their extremely hot environment and of a few others that indicated that the Chevron Syn equivalent had all around better performance than the SUDT, but the Chevron cost even more than the SUDT.

One can use what ever brand and type of fluid they want in their HST's but I will continue to use SUDT for my every 400 hr fluid change.

 

[TUG HILL ADDICT]

Well you all inspired me so I read the L4330 manual...it calls for UDT OR SUDT.

Also found a container of the TSC Hydr. fluid in the barn and it indicates that it meets the specifications of Kubota UDT.

Interesting......

 

[TUG HILL ADDICT]

They could easily be deriving those profits intentionally...not that the SUDT isn't good stuff...but necessary will always be questionable. I gaurantee the upper level management knows the profits of this transition. Sucessful companies that have good branding can do this. Loyal customers and great products.

.

I'm thinking you're on to something. My instincts are based on 24 years of working in sales and marketing for a manufacturing firm.

 

[PERCTK]

Your manual also states you are to use the seat belt at all times...so I guess your tractor never moves without you belted in eh?

Mine does not come with a seat belt, I have a small Kubota. Regarding the seatbelt can't say that I have always belted up on other units I operated, but if I am in a situation where I can go over, I would rather be belted in than crushed by the ROPS. Hope it never happens but I have spoken with two expierenced operators that have laid them over and were belted in and both lived to tell about it.
Just curious what does your ops manual say about the first oil change? I heard that some Kubotas are no longer requiring a 50 hour breakin oil change.

 

[TUG HILL ADDICT]

Mine does not come with a seat belt, I have a small Kubota. Regarding the seatbelt can't say that I have always belted up on other units I operated, but if I am in a situation where I can go over, I would rather be belted in than crushed by the ROPS. Hope it never happens but I have spoken with two expierenced operators that have laid them over and were belted in and both lived to tell about it.
Just curious what does your ops manual say about the first oil change? I heard that some Kubotas are no longer requiring a 50 hour breakin oil change.

Not sure...but i try to change the oil and filters in both tractors every 50 hours.

By the way I have a lot of hours operating a bulldozer and ALWAYS wear a seat belt...I had an experience where doing so saved my life.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Simply wondering why SUDT is better? Hydr. Fluid is a very thin viscosity petroleum product. Unless I'm missing something the oil is not lubricating like a motor oil does.

I'd say that HST fluid has a much harder job to do than an engine oil does. The tollarance inside an HST pump are much tighter than an engine block. You can't put the pistons back in an HST if you've held them in your hand because the heat is enough to expand them to the point that they don't fit.

This is an age old conversation, I think the experience of people who have changed from one to the other speaks volumes.

I've only every seen one private label oil that meets SUDT specs, and its about $15 cheaper for a 5-gal bucket. Whatever it is, I don't get the impression that they're exactly making a windfall on it.

 

[tommyz270]

Yeah, I think this is kind of like using "Toyota" branded oil versus something you get a a parts store...

The branded oil could definitely be a "profit" center for them....

Don't think we'll ever know if there is a real difference. I would tend to think some companies do actually come up with a specific formula that they feel works best and add it to their engineering plans and some just re-brand.

Don't think it's something that will ever get answered.... unfortunately...