CTyler
Veteran Member
With all the farm fields in America why are we not using more alcohol? I'm talking about converting grain(corn)into fuel.
Why not more alcohol fuel?
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RobS
Super Member
We have an ethanol plant nearby which I toured shortly after it opened. As I recall, it takes as much energy to produce the ethanol as you get out of the ethanol. Their claim is that they can take energy from a source unusable in a car (coal) and convert it to something useable in a car (ethanol).
It must work, they have been in production for many years. We can always tell when the wind shifts to the South, smells like a distillery /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
It must work, they have been in production for many years. We can always tell when the wind shifts to the South, smells like a distillery /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
MossRoad
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Ahhh, the smell of ethanol in the morning. Gotta love it, Rob! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
As to why there isn't more of it in use instead of gasoline... The oil companies can make more of a profit from oil than corn. That's all. If they could make more profit off of alchol than oil we'd all be driving corn burners within a decade.
As to why there isn't more of it in use instead of gasoline... The oil companies can make more of a profit from oil than corn. That's all. If they could make more profit off of alchol than oil we'd all be driving corn burners within a decade.
cowboydoc
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That is true Moss. That is misinformation about fuel alcohol being the same to produce as what it makes. The break even point for alcohol production is around $2.25/gallon and we are almost there. If it goes much higher and stays there you will see a significant increase in alcohol production. Also most vehicles will only accept blended fuel. There are some new vehicles out that started last year that will burn 100% corn fuel. The Ford Explorer was one of them.
cowboydoc
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It's a factor of both. If production increased certainly prices would go down. The problem is really the lack of cars that can really run a 100% ethanol blend. Right now the blended is as far as it goes. The conversion process really isn't that difficult.
RobertN
Super Member
Economics and big business. As Richard has mentioned, it costs a lot to make corn alchohol right now.
A better question is why the manufacturers keep selling us cars/trucks that get mediocre mileage. The automobile has been around over 100 years. All the manufacturers are on a new/recent engine designs that replaced older less efficient ones.
So, how come we still get mediocre mileage? They burn cleaner, and have more HP, but they do not get significantly better fuel economy compared to the previos generation of engines. Heck, my Dad's '63 Chevy Super Sport Impala with a HO 327 would get mid 20's on the highway(IF he kept his foot out of the secondaries on that Holley). What do full size sedan/coupes get now?
It burns my hide, 'cause it's all big business. First, we use up non-replaceable fuel source(dino-oil). Second, it costs us a lot at the pump. Third, the autos use a lot of it.
A better question is why the manufacturers keep selling us cars/trucks that get mediocre mileage. The automobile has been around over 100 years. All the manufacturers are on a new/recent engine designs that replaced older less efficient ones.
So, how come we still get mediocre mileage? They burn cleaner, and have more HP, but they do not get significantly better fuel economy compared to the previos generation of engines. Heck, my Dad's '63 Chevy Super Sport Impala with a HO 327 would get mid 20's on the highway(IF he kept his foot out of the secondaries on that Holley). What do full size sedan/coupes get now?
It burns my hide, 'cause it's all big business. First, we use up non-replaceable fuel source(dino-oil). Second, it costs us a lot at the pump. Third, the autos use a lot of it.
RichZ
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Richard, I couldn't agree with you more!! The more production of ethanol you have the lower the costs will be. And with very little modification, most cars can run on 100% alcohol. In fact they already do in either Brazil or Argentina, I forget which. The only problem is the oil companies try to block the use of alcohol as fuel, since they can't control a renewable resource like alcohol.
rdln
Veteran Member
My wife's yukon can burn E85 (85%ethanol) but there are about 7 stations dispensing it in Michigan, the closest about an hour away. I called HQ of the local chain in Port Huron inquiring about it and they said they have never heard of E85???
TresCrows
Elite Member
Several reasons, one is that it is not really the greatest fuel and has lower BTU per gallon than gasoline. The other is that there is a net loss of energy per gallon of grain fuel because it takes energy produced principly by hydrocarbon fuels to convert the grain to alcohol. Oil is really hard to replace, it has high BTU per gallon and is of course a net gain in the refinement process. No other fuel in abundent supply short of hydrogen has a higher BTU per weight ratio. Current battery technology for electric cars have no where near the BTU per weight of gasoline fuel. Gasoline is still cheap compared to alternatives and frankly aside from fuel cell technology there really is no replacement. There is no alchemy or magic bullets. There simply is no other more abundant or cheaper fuel that can be shoved into a fairly compact fuel tank which can then power a truck or car for hundreds of miles before recharging/refueling, can then be refueled in minutes and which does not degrade with each refuel/recharge cycle. Further, plastics, rubber, all sorts of high tech materials and things you have no idea about are made from petroleum so even if we had grain fuel and fuel cells both we still need oil and lot's of it. J