Why no Ecoboost in the F250?

[Renze]

300k miles is also a bit optimistic

I was referring to what the Volvo B23 did when my father was still delivering breeding sows with a two horse V nose trailer. I know most 1990s gasoline engines werent that durable: In fact there are more 300k Volvo gas engines than 300k diesel versions, with the 2.4 inline six IDI VW engine... which passed out at 360.000km (or 225k miles)

My brothers 1985 Merc 300D did 840.000km before he had to let go of it because it was rotten beyond welding, and the rear axle mounting points were ripped out of the chassis because of a large cattle trailer with which he regularly topped 10-14k pounds on the scales...

 

[Renze]

Compression ratio doesn't change, air and fuel are scaled up with demand to keep compression constant.

Cylinder pressures are higher, the 6 bolt mains supporting a girdle seems to be holding up, even on hot tunes.

Not exactly: the throttle valve chokes the air intake of the engine to keep it at a certain speed. (Thats how gas engines are governed)
So, the static compression ratio remains constant, but the effective compression ratio (by creating a vacuum behind the throttle valve by closing it) or by increasing the intake pressure by turbocharging, alters the effective compression ratio.

Direct gas injection means that the gas engine is not really a mixture engine anymore, because the fuel is added at the end of the compression stroke, like a diesel.

Anyways, even an EcoBoost is still far away from the piston pressures of a modern diesel engine.

The throttle bodied turbo engine does have a drawback over a free breathing turbo diesel engine: a Diesel at idle, draws in its full swept volume, where a gas engine is squeezed to keep it at idle. So when you stomp the gas pedal, the turbo in a gas engine is allmost stalled in the low airflow, where the diesel engines turbo spins with the air flow of swept volume x idle rpm...

 

[Renze]

No, I kind of didn’t. lol
If you read my post, my main point was for if anyone thinks gas engines are up to diesel engines, they aren’t. None are used in tractors much over 25HP

Anyone ever see a gasser recently in a farm tractor? OTR heavy trucks? Tugboats? Industrial equipment?
Hmmmm wonder why? Gas engines can do almost what a diesel can now according to some and cheaper to buy and fuel, so why not? lol

I have seen gas engines in power generation and marine. However, the natural gas versions have half the power output of the Diesel versions, though the waste heat rejection isnt that different)

Wärtsilä 31SG marine spark gas engine

The marine Spark Gas engine represents the lowest total cost of ownership with the lowest environmental footprint for operation in areas with a secured gas supply.

www.wartsila.com

 

[Hay Dude]

A diesel engine could be built to last. But why? Doing so especially in the pre emission days would push the cost to close to diesel levels. The biggest reason gas burners aren’t typically in working equipment and never will be in working equipment is a hard working gas motor burns twice as much fuel as a diesel. And fuel is expensive. The increased difficulty of transporting gasoline doesn’t make the case better.

I think is the reason is the low end torque is bad compared to a diesel.
Gas engines need to rev. Typically 2-3x as much to make the same torque.
Thats a ridiculous amount of wear and fuel consumption to achieve the same result.

Doesn’t really matter all that much anyways. The way we are going, gas engines will be gone soon. Diesel will hang around a bit longer because they haven’t figured out a way to replace them yet without having quadruple motors and 10,000lbs of batteries lol

Long live Rudolph Diesel & Clessie Cummins.

 

[Hay Dude]

I have seen gas engines in power generation and marine. However, the natural gas versions have half the power output of the Diesel versions, though the waste heat rejection isnt that different)

Wärtsilä 31SG marine spark gas engine

The marine Spark Gas engine represents the lowest total cost of ownership with the lowest environmental footprint for operation in areas with a secured gas supply.

www.wartsila.com

Note that I didn’t mention marine or power generation

 

[nisaacs]

I think is the reason is the low end torque is bad compared to a diesel.
Gas engines need to rev. Typically 2-3x as much to make the same torque.
Thats a ridiculous amount of wear and fuel consumption to achieve the same result.

Not doubting you at all, I am a diesel fan, got 9 of 'em, Lol But a little trivia...My '17 Ford Escape w/2.0 Eco-boost has 245hp/275tq. New Cummins crate engine, 2.8 has 161hp/310tq.

 

[Hay Dude]

Not doubting you at all, I am a diesel fan, got 9 of 'em, Lol But a little trivia...My '17 Ford Escape w/2.0 Eco-boost has 275hp/275tq. New Cummins crate engine, 2.8 has 161hp/310tq.

I hear ya

Take it a step further and ask yourself which engine you’d rather put in a small truck?
My guess is the Cummins because it has more torque, will make more torque to get the load moving, will use less fuel and last longer.

These are all important factors to owners of trucks and machinery.

 

[MossRoad]

A v8 has more rpm range. Rpms are a factor in both torque and hp.

The straight 6 of the same displacement usually has a longer stroke.
Longer crank arms = more leverage = more torque at lower RPMs.

It's all very interesting the balance between torque, HP, and what RPMs you want them to develop at per the intended application.

 

[MossRoad]

I had a mid 70's IH2500b HST tractor loader with a gas engine. It was rated very similarly to the same model with a diesel engine. It was strong, low RPM, and ran just fine. However, as many others have stated, it drank a lot of gasoline. That's my guess as to why gas engines in tractors went by the wayside... nothing to do with strength, power, longevity, etc. All due to cost of operation over the long haul.

 

[deezler]

Amazing how you see all those gas CUT tractors out there lol
People cry like babies because their diesel tractors over 25HP have expensive emissions. So why don’t the manufacturers put turbocharged gas engines in them if they’re almost as good as diesel? It would be cheaper, too.

What??? Not as much torque or longevity? surely you jest….

I would not mind having a 30 HP gasoline motor in my CUT one bit. And no, it wouldn't necessarily need to be turbo. Just 1.5L to 2.0L 3 or 4 cyl that revs up a bit higher - but it would still be quieter, just as durable, cleaner exhaust (even T4 CUTs are kinda stinky) with no DPF regeneration, and $4/gal fuel instead of $5.50/gal.

That said, it makes sense why they all stuck with diesel. The DPF addition was a relatively minor change on this type of product that gets minimal engineering investment for "new" models. Stick with what works, etc.