Who makes the BEST garden tractor?

timb · Apr 14, 2004

Bob -

First - where's the picures?

and "B" - I like your definition of a sub-cut vs GT. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif That means my GT just got promoted to a sub-cut (JD 318) since it technically can use non-proprietary (cat 0) implements on the 3-point. The rear PTO is 2000 rpm which is a little rare but I think even that was a 'standard' for cat 0 at one time. OK - it's a gasser but there was a diesel version and there were loaders available.

Guess there's a lot of gray areas. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Tim

Bob_Skurka · Apr 14, 2004

Tim . . . I guess I should modify my definition to eliminate category "0" from the sub-cut group. I never defined standard implements, but I did mean to say, without saying it, Cat 1 3pt hitch with a standard 540 PTO. My fault.

As for the loaders available for garden tractors, I agree, there are some aftermarket units and some factory units. But I go back to the INTENT of the designers and the capabilities. The reality is those things are nice conveniences, but they are not workhorses. The capabilities of the bucket I got on the Ventrac today is NOTHING like the loader capabilities on my Kubota!

timb · Apr 15, 2004

Bob -

Ah semantics...

Of course my comment was strictly tongue-in-cheek - /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif - but I personally feel that it is very difficult to pin down a clear definition of what constitutes a GT vs sub-CUT vs CUT vs a utility tractor.

Anytime you try to say the having, or the lack of having, a specific feature puts a tractor in one category or another you end up finding an exception or a unit that bridges the gap. A category 0 hitch can be just as legitimate (and useable within a certain scale of operations) a version of old Harry's concept as a cat III. Cat III (narrow or otherwise) is just as legit an industry "standard" for non-proprietary implement spec but won't fit a "CUT" anymore than a normal Cat I implement can fit a Cat 0 hitch. Ditto 1000 rpm PTO's instead of 540. Plenty of older 'real' tractors built with cat I would not be called a CUT by very many. The biggest CUTs today have cat I/II hitches yet folks still won't begrudge them full 'utility' status. With a 3-to-1 range of hp and weight from the small end to the large - it's hard to consider all of those tractors as belonging to any one category such as "CUTs".

One thought - since the hitch ought to be sized by the mfg. to be appropriate to the tractor's capabilities - perhaps we could drop all of this GT, sub-CUT, CUT, utility et al nonsense and simply consider them ALL "tractors", albeit a Category 0 tractor, a Category I tractor, a Category I-II tractor, you get the idea. Or "Class 0", Clase I", "Class I/II"... if you like.

Not that any of this means much - just good around-the-wood-stove chat. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Tim

DAP · Apr 15, 2004

I see. Well .. on my place, I have apprx. 3 acres of lawns to finish cut, with many angular and low hanging obstacles (trees - shrubs, gardens, out-buildings, fencing, you name it).

I ruled out a ZTR initially for a few reasons ... 1 being trying to control costs during the 1st year of residency. 2nd ... and although unsure of what ELSE I might need from a mowing machine as far as utility goes, the ZTRs fit best for the DEDICATED purpose of mowing.

I knew a CUT could not handle the finish mowing chores so through this process of elimination, I opted for a large mowing tractor/garden tractor type machine. Specficially, a JD LX288 - which is 18hp, 2wd, gas, turf tires and a hydro tranny and a 4ft. deck.

With a hobby farms animal population on its way back then, I knew a CUT would be essential (not to mention another 2.5 acres of rotary mowing in an adjacent field) so that ruled out a garden tractor with a 3PH and small loader and implement capabilities.

Hopefully, economics will install the CUT this year. The JD mower has been asked to do some things it twasn't designed to do and does them flawlessly. These include: mowing some severly sloped runs, pulling an estate wagon with 500+ pounds of firewood, pulling a 400 lb leave vacuum/shredder, even cutting the adjacent 2.5 acre old hay field, a spike aeroator and a homemade chain harrow and various other gardening tasks.

This JD is a commercial strength mower and was had for about 5k. It would be a real stretch for me to justify having more than a CUT and a mower as far as machines go. I've always loved machines including tractors, but am not really of a collecting mind when it comes to tractors.

How do you use all those machines anyway? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bob_Skurka · Apr 15, 2004

Doug, I use the machines ONE AT A TIME! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As for your next machine, I strongly urge you to look at the Power Trac 425. It is a funny looking thing and doesn't look like it would do the tractoring work, but I think I could get rid of the NH and the Kubota and get one of those, or maybe the next model up? But seriously, the PT stuff is amazing and capable. It is just butt ugly. But then I never said I was too good looking either!

By the way, I posted a bunch of pictures of the Ventrac in the general forum section if you want to take a look.

Ventrac thread with pictures in Buying/Pricing Forum

MossRoad · Apr 15, 2004

<font color="blue"> now maybe I'll shut up for a while.</font>

I hope not! I want to hear about this machine. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

slowrev · Apr 15, 2004

Tim,
Good reply on the Garden tractor vs SUB CUT. Personally I think it it mostly all marketing hype. 3 factors, Engine size, Weight, 2WD/4WD, and size of hitch should be used to determine tractor type not salesmen.

Bob_Skurka · Apr 15, 2004

slowrev . . .

New Holland's TZ18 is clearly a Sub-CUT with an 18 hp engine. My Cub Cadet, with an 18 hp engine is clearly a Garden Tractor. My new 21 hp Ventrac is certainly NOT a Sub-CUT or a CUT. A Kubota B7500 with a 21 hp engine is obviously a CUT. A Massey 2300 with 23 hp is a SUB-CUT. A NH TC18 is clearly a CUT despite only having 18 hp.

How does engine size have anything to do with whether a tractor is a GT, a SUB-CUT or a CUT?

I will agree with you that hitch type should be a determining factor, I think marketing is probably not valid, but design intent should be considered. Ground clearance is probably a consideration, but then where do the Power Trac units fall into all of this?

MossRoad · Apr 16, 2004

<font color="blue"> where do the Power Trac units fall into all of this? </font>

A multi-tool platform, perhaps? MTP

Do I get copy rights? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bob_Skurka · Apr 16, 2004

Moss I would probably call PT's butt ugly but very functional CUTs. Do you think I should copywrite that? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Seriously, PT needs some design help to spiff up their looks. The Ventrac I just got is pretty much butt ugly too. Lots of flat sheet metal bent into sharp corners (which I am not thrilled with from the safety stand point). But I think they did a pretty good job with their decals and their bi-color paint scheme. They carried the graphics across their entire product line, adding some additional blue to their 4200, but all are the same basic colors.

I guess both PT & Ventrac are "form follows function" designs, but I think PT might sell some more units if they had a little more flair to the designs.