Rotary Cutter Which 5' cutter to get

/ Which 5' cutter to get #41  
Rudeness has crept in to all aspects of American society. I have played Spades on the Microsoft Zone website for more than ten years. When I started everybody was polite and friendly. Now even if you are winning your partner will cuss you out and ridicule you. So TBN is not the only place it happens. It is so prevelant that even when someone just means to offer friendly advice it is taken as an insult.

Welcome to a Socialist society.
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #42  
Rudeness has crept in to all aspects of American society. I have played Spades on the Microsoft Zone website for more than ten years. When I started everybody was polite and friendly. Now even if you are winning your partner will cuss you out and ridicule you. So TBN is not the only place it happens. It is so prevelant that even when someone just means to offer friendly advice it is taken as an insult.

Welcome to a Socialist society.

Agreed, I use to participate in a Yamaha Rhino and Yamaha Grizzly forum as well as one in a local newspaper and quit some time ago due to people flaming each other, name calling, getting banned and coming back under another pseudonym.

It is not like that on TBN though it seems to be heading that way to a much lesser extent. I expect there will come a time maybe not in the too distant future when I stop posting here too.
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #43  
To be honest I have found this, and continue to find this to be the most polite forum on anything that I participate in.

TripleR, I value your input here and hope that you will continue posting.

People are often passionate about their point of view and I see no problem with it and strong disagreements as long as they are polite. Frankly I find that unless it comes to politics things stay to be passionate discussion here.

I have found the discussion on rotary cutter's vs. flail mowers in this topic very useful.

A couple of years ago I got started learning a bit about welding and joined the Millermatic forums. I found many of the people there to be incredibly rude. I haven't done much welding since and might have been more encouraged with better support. I'm happy to see a welding forum here as a result and when I get some time, I might take something on again.
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get
  • Thread Starter
#44  
This Reply is for everyone. I thank you for the information that you have all submitted. I will say this, at the point when it got to a drawn out thing between flail and rotary mowers we lost perspective of the question(s) proposed. I do appreciate being told about them, and what they do. Information was noted. Flail is not what I am looking for or want. As far as the going back and forth about dangers and so on... I have had rotary cutters before a long time ago. I have also scene my riding lawn mower, and push mower throw scuff, break stuff and hit people, it happens. I think it is personally obvious that if you are using a mower and it has a large open area you should have something covering it to lower the chance of something being thrown far, (ie. chain, rubber). Also Regular maintains of making sure things are moving properly and tightened correctly is also a given. I/we have made a living in the safety industry so to use that is pretty second nature. I/we are trying to get feedback on cutters. I have come to the conclusion that a regular/light duty of a decent brand will do good. Maybe even go up to a 6' if I take my time and pay attention to what I'm doing, at least if I stick with a 30hp tractor. 10' is just not gonna happen, thanks anyway.
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #45  
I agree with the gentlemen here that bemoan the loss of civility. I never posted on these type of forums much, and this is the reason.
Facts are very elusive, and I've yet to meet the person that has them pinned down! What we are ALL posting here is OPINION, which can be colored by our personal experiences, wants and needs. To further complicate the interaction on a computer is the lack of face to face contact. Some folks feel that their OPINIONS somehow have more validity than the next guy's. Some people just need to feel adored by seeming to be the expert.

Internet forums would be much friendlier places if we could all learn to express our opinion, and leave the next guy's alone!

I've yet to meet the person that has a lock on knowledge... in any field!

We can all learn something..
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #46  
To:
Greg G
&
Farmwithjunk

I will ask you the two of you to please stop using my posted question for what ever it is between the two of you. If you have an answer to MY post then please just answer it, no need to try and say things about each other. I would appreciate it.

The internet is a dichotomy..

It can be both a great place to glean information, and the worst place to obtain it... It's up to the user.
The individual needs the ability to be able to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Unfortunately, there is often precious little wheat amongst the mounds of chaff... We each need to be able to discern the difference.

And, after the original post, threads often develop a life of their own. They can twist and turn in a myriad of directions... It's all part of the game, and seperating the wheat from the chaff...
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #47  
as FWJ said. highher initial cost, higher maint cost.. more parts to fix / replace.. and let me tell you.. if you think hitting a discarded tire is a teeth rattling affair on a rotary cutter.. hit it with a flail.. at least on the rotary cutter you might just pop a shear pin or slip the clutch, scare the bajeebers out of you and/or leave a blunt ont he blade to file out. In the flail.. you might be left make a strip where it ain't cutting.. :)

soundguy

I have never used a flail mower, so I cannot make any comment about them; good or bad. However, as I've mentioned before, I took exactly 1 contract mowing a highway median that began .5 miles from my house and went for 5 miles. To be polite, I lost my hind end on that job! I hit everything possible hidden in 3' tall grass it seems, including rotted deer carcasses, rocks, plenty of disgarded trash, a dang section of barb wire about 50' long and, the worst, several "gatorbacks" (as I learned they are called), the retread part off of semi tires. Besides the potential damage to my equipment, it took 6 full hours with 2 people working to get a 'gatorback' out from under a rotary mower being pulled by a 120 hp PTO tractor! :mad:

I'm not sure we ever got a single mowing completed without issues. Litterbugs really tick me off. If you don't clean up the litter before/after you cut, it looks terrible and sometimes I wouldn't get paid until I cleaned up the mess. My contract was to mow; period. Nowhere in the contract did it say that I was the caretaker of 5 miles of median and that I would fill two dumptrucks with trash each time I mowed. God bless the guys who make a living doing such jobs! It is NOT an easy way to make a living. I won't bore anyone with the numerous stories I can tell from just one season, but it sure wasn't easy work. Unless flail mowers are extremely tough, I don't see how they would work well for cutting tall grass; especially if you don't know what you may find in that grass. Again, I've never used a flail mower, so that's just my opinion.
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #48  
I've never used a flail, but after hitting numerous rocks (that seem to appear every year) with my rotary, I thought a flail might take the abuse a bit better.
I called BEFCO and spoke with a tech. He informed me in no uncertain terms, that the opposite was true. His opinion was that the flail would not stand up to the abuse a rotary cutter has to take, and that the biggest issue was the rotating drum going out of alignment. It seemed to make sense.
So, that was the end of the story for me... When I don't know, I seek the advice of folks that do and give their knowledge some weight..
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #49  
iwalsh, I apologize for getting off topic.
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #50  
I have never used a flail mower, so I cannot make any comment about them; good or bad. However, as I've mentioned before, I took exactly 1 contract mowing a highway median that began .5 miles from my house and went for 5 miles. To be polite, I lost my hind end on that job! I hit everything possible hidden in 3' tall grass it seems, including rotted deer carcasses, rocks, plenty of disgarded trash, a dang section of barb wire about 50' long and, the worst, several "gatorbacks" (as I learned they are called), the retread part off of semi tires. Besides the potential damage to my equipment, it took 6 full hours with 2 people working to get a 'gatorback' out from under a rotary mower being pulled by a 120 hp PTO tractor! :mad:

I'm not sure we ever got a single mowing completed without issues. Litterbugs really tick me off. If you don't clean up the litter before/after you cut, it looks terrible and sometimes I wouldn't get paid until I cleaned up the mess. My contract was to mow; period. Nowhere in the contract did it say that I was the caretaker of 5 miles of median and that I would fill two dumptrucks with trash each time I mowed. God bless the guys who make a living doing such jobs! It is NOT an easy way to make a living. I won't bore anyone with the numerous stories I can tell from just one season, but it sure wasn't easy work. Unless flail mowers are extremely tough, I don't see how they would work well for cutting tall grass; especially if you don't know what you may find in that grass. Again, I've never used a flail mower, so that's just my opinion.
Actually, in trucker lingo.......it's just "gators".

We call them that for a reason.

Just like an alligator, they lie in wait for an unsuspecting person...........then they jump up and bite you hard, sometimes causing severe accidents......and even deaths.

Nothing like hitting one with a tractor-trailer at 70 MPH and having it rip the airlines off your trailer..........instant brake lockup at 70MPH, Oh Joy.

Or hit it with your truck, and it goes thru the windshield of the car that's been tailgating you for the last 10 miles.
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #51  
I have never used a flail mower, so I cannot make any comment about them; good or bad. However, as I've mentioned before, I took exactly 1 contract mowing a highway median that began .5 miles from my house and went for 5 miles. To be polite, I lost my hind end on that job! I hit everything possible hidden in 3' tall grass it seems, including rotted deer carcasses, rocks, plenty of disgarded trash, a dang section of barb wire about 50' long and, the worst, several "gatorbacks" (as I learned they are called), the retread part off of semi tires. Besides the potential damage to my equipment, it took 6 full hours with 2 people working to get a 'gatorback' out from under a rotary mower being pulled by a 120 hp PTO tractor! :mad:

I'm not sure we ever got a single mowing completed without issues. Litterbugs really tick me off. If you don't clean up the litter before/after you cut, it looks terrible and sometimes I wouldn't get paid until I cleaned up the mess. My contract was to mow; period. Nowhere in the contract did it say that I was the caretaker of 5 miles of median and that I would fill two dumptrucks with trash each time I mowed. God bless the guys who make a living doing such jobs! It is NOT an easy way to make a living. I won't bore anyone with the numerous stories I can tell from just one season, but it sure wasn't easy work. Unless flail mowers are extremely tough, I don't see how they would work well for cutting tall grass; especially if you don't know what you may find in that grass. Again, I've never used a flail mower, so that's just my opinion.

With all but one highway right of way mowing contract I have, we're required to walk the roadside and pick up all the "garbage". The issue isn't so much the possibility of flying objects as it is shredded garbage that would be left after mowing. I sub-contract that chore, but it's still my resonsibility. The issue of flying debris is blown WAY out of proportion. As I've posted several times, the numbers just don't bear out the sensationalism and drama a few people would lik eyou to believe. Odds of being hit with flying debris from a highway mower is 200 times LESS LIKELY than being struck by lightning. So the safety issue is really not so much of an issue. What IS a safety issue is equipment, trucks, and employees being struck by passing cars and trucks. I need to get the job done and get out of the cross hairs. Plodding along with a slow, inefficient, high maintenance boondoggle of a "mower" INCREASES the chances of an accident rather than promoting safety.

When I started bidding highway work, I had the idea (from some of the sales propaganda I heard on here no less) that I could market the concept of increased safety by using flail mowers. I contacted Tiger Mfg, the #1 name in commercial mowing equipment. They sell EVERYTHING you need or want. They brought me 3 rear mounted Alamo flails to demo, as well as 1 complete mowing rig. (8' rear flail/7' side mounted flail/120hp tractor) to run along side of a 75hp tractor with a 15' batwing as a direct comparison. The operators involved were myself, a rep from Tiger Mfg., my son, and one other operator who I consider my best. We took turns on each mower so as to get an equal baseline.

End result; 75hp/15' bat wing would mow double the acreage on less fuel, and with less that 60% initial purchase price. Life expectency (as predicted by Tiger) for the flails are less than half the time I already KNOW I'll get from the 15' bat wings. And daily maintenance and repairs wasn't even close to being comparable. In a little over 80 hours, the bat wing was "down" for approx 30 minutes while we changed a tire. Flail rig was down for 2 full days at one point. (knives needing replacing, bearing siezing, hydraulic leak, ect...) In the end, the flail mower of equal width (but double the cost once you factor in operating cost) produced less than half the volume of work in the same amount of time, with no noticable difference in quality of work done......

Under IDEAL conditions, there would have been more parity. But we don't mow in ideal conditions. Under real world conditions....not so much....And my comparisons were done with what is considered the highest quality commercial grade flail mowers available....Not with consumer grade junk. The bat wing was a mid level Bush Hog 2615L....Not even a 2715L.....Just a mid grade bat wing.

For someone who mows 3 or 4 acres of well maintained grass, maybe 3 times a year, the law of averages says you can PROBABLY get away with mowing with ANYTHING. I'm just not into "probably" or "maybe" when I spend what I'd consider big bucks. So far this season, my mowing rigs have logged over 4800 hours in varying conditions. I seriously doubt there's a collective yearly total of hours amongst all participating in this thread to equal the hours of results I have to base my opinion upon. I'm making a decent profit. If I bid the same work with consideration towards using flail mowers, NONE of the contracts would have been mine. NONE.....There is simply NO ROOM for bids that are double (or more) than what is a competitive bid.

Quality of work done; My rotaries perform at or above required standards for ALL of my customers, as well as the excellent results I get on my OWN property.

And with consideration towards the issues that make flails uncompetitive in my business, I SURE wouldn't want to deal with the same issues in my "spare time", whatever that is....

"Liabilities" far exceed any alleged "assets" that a flail mower might have.
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #52  
Farmwithjunk said:
With all but one highway right of way mowing contract I have, we're required to walk the roadside and pick up all the "garbage". The issue isn't so much the possibility of flying objects as it is shredded garbage that would be left after mowing. I sub-contract that chore, but it's still my resonsibility. The issue of flying debris is blown WAY out of proportion. As I've posted several times, the numbers just don't bear out the sensationalism and drama a few people would lik eyou to believe. Odds of being hit with flying debris from a highway mower is 200 times LESS LIKELY than being struck by lightning. So the safety issue is really not so much of an issue. What IS a safety issue is equipment, trucks, and employees being struck by passing cars and trucks. I need to get the job done and get out of the cross hairs. Plodding along with a slow, inefficient, high maintenance boondoggle of a "mower" INCREASES the chances of an accident rather than promoting safety.

When I started bidding highway work, I had the idea (from some of the sales propaganda I heard on here no less) that I could market the concept of increased safety by using flail mowers. I contacted Tiger Mfg, the #1 name in commercial mowing equipment. They sell EVERYTHING you need or want. They brought me 3 rear mounted flails to demo, as well as 1 complete mowing rig. (8' rear flail/7' side mounted flail/120hp tractor) to run along side of a 75hp tractor with a 15' batwing as a direct comparison. The operators involved were myself, a rep from Tiger Mfg., my son, and one other operator who I consider my best. We took turns on each mower so as to get an equal baseline.

End result; 75hp/15' bat wing would mow double the acreage on less fuel, and with less that 60% initial purchase price. Life expectency (as predicted by Tiger) for the flails are less than half the time I already KNOW I'll get from the 15' bat wings. And daily maintenance and repairs wasn't even close to being comparable. In a little over 80 hours, the bat wing was "down" for approx 30 minutes while we changed a tire. Flail rig was down for 2 full days at one point. (knives needing replacing, bearing siezing, hydraulic leak, ect...) In the end, the flail mower of equal width (but double the cost once you factor in operating cost) produced less than half the volume of work in the same amount of time, with no noticable difference in quality of work done......

Under IDEAL conditions, there would have been more parity. But we don't mow in ideal conditions. Under real world conditions....not so much....And my comparisons were done with what is considered the highest quality commercial grade flail mowers available....Not with consumer grade junk. The bat wing was a mid level Bush Hog 2615L....Not even a 2715L.....Just a mid grade bat wing.

For someone who mows 3 or 4 acres of well maintained grass, maybe 3 times a year, the law of averages says you can PROBABLY get away with mowing with ANYTHING. I'm just not into "probably" or "maybe" when I spend what I'd consider big bucks. So far this season, my mowing rigs have logged over 4800 hours in varying conditions. I seriously doubt there's a collective yearly total of hours amongst all participating in this thread to equal the hours of results I have to base my opinion upon. I'm making a decent profit. If I bid the same work with consideration towards using flail mowers, NONE of the contracts would have been mine. NONE.....There is simply NO ROOM for bids that are double (or more) than what is a competitive bid.

Quality of work done; My rotaries perform at or above required standards for ALL of my customers, as well as the excellent results I get on my OWN property.

And with consideration towards the issues that make flails uncompetitive in my business, I SURE wouldn't want to deal with the same issues in my "spare time", whatever that is....

"Liabilities" far exceed any alleged "assets" that a flail mower might have.

Nice unbiased, to the point. If flails do not pencil out on a commercial use, then they cannot be justified for personal use. One would be better off buying a top quality Rotary and have money in the bank, vs buying a flail.


Are those highway contracts bid annually??
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #54  
Farmwithjunk said:
Yes. And the winning bids have come DOWN on a number of them as business gets more cut-throat.

That is the same with snow removal up here. Guys bid insanely low, then sub out to some who seem to work for 'smokes'.
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #56  
That is the same with snow removal up here. Guys bid insanely low, then sub out to some who seem to work for 'smokes'.


I bid contracts as if every one is a first time job. Bids are based on cost plus a targeted profit. I use all reasonable safety precautions, operate legally (in regards to documented employees, insurance requirements, licensing vehicles, ect...) Even with the refuse clean up portion of the bid, I require my sub contractors to carry insurance, prove documentation of employees, ect.... NO ONE is cheating the system with my name on the line. With a number of my competitors, bidding is simply taking last years winning bid and chopping 2 or 3%. Then they cut corners everywhere possible in order to show a profit, even if that requires less than ethical means.
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #58  
her ein florida we call em black gators.

I've hit one and had it rip the trailer wireing out from under the trailer at the truck conenction point during a 46 hr red-eye trip to/from texas.. not fun to be pulled over on a holdiay early morning in the middle of nowhere, freezing your nads off laying under a trailer with a roll of sticky tape, wire cutters and any scrap wire you can find making sure you have e-brakes and lamps!!!

soundguy

Actually, in trucker lingo.......it's just "gators".

We call them that for a reason.

Just like an alligator, they lie in wait for an unsuspecting person...........then they jump up and bite you hard, sometimes causing severe accidents......and even deaths.

Nothing like hitting one with a tractor-trailer at 70 MPH and having it rip the airlines off your trailer..........instant brake lockup at 70MPH, Oh Joy.

Or hit it with your truck, and it goes thru the windshield of the car that's been tailgating you for the last 10 miles.
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #59  
Yes. And the winning bids have come DOWN on a number of them as business gets more cut-throat.

same as inthe construction industry.

we are bidding with unit prices from the late 80's :(


soundguy
 
/ Which 5' cutter to get #60  
same as inthe construction industry.

we are bidding with unit prices from the late 80's :(


soundguy

Before my time in the mowing business, I've been told there was a bid review process where winning bids were passed over by the state if the bidder couldn't show where they could perform the task without losing money. It was thought a contractor might quit midway through a job, creating a need for rebidding. Now days they take any cheap bid they can get.
 
 

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