Where to bury drain tile?

[Gary_in_Indiana]

I need to put some drain tile along at least two sides of my building and wanted some input as to how far away from the base of the building to dig my trench.

 

[neilly2]

Amazing--- I just finished backfilled 2 sides of my house after excavating and installing drain tile. I also re-waterproofed the basement walls.

Fortunately, I had access to a full size track hoe which made the job go quick.

Ideally the drain pipe would be installed directly next to or a little below the footing of your basement wall. I was able to excavate and expose the walls down to the footing (some excellent operating if I say so myself). Now, I believe a good machine to do this would be a mini track excavator which can be rented. The smaller size will make it easier to get up close to the house. Just check the digging depth.

Just to make sure--- my definition of a drain tile is a perforated plastic pipe, wrapped with filter fabric and surrounded by clean stone, prior to backfill.

It is a very satisfying project when completed.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

In my case there is not only no basement but no foundation either. It's just a pole barn which currently has a dirt floor. I want to get my drainage right before I put concrete in part of it. What I was trying to find out is how far from the outside wall I should trench.

I'm looking at perforated black plastic as well but hadn't thought about all of the other things you did. One other question comes to mind here. If I install gutters (which I intend to do) should I run that water into and through the same drain tile or into and through a separate, non-perforated plastic pipe?

 

[neilly2]

What type of soil do you have? Clay-ey or sandy?

Do you have an exisiting water problem or are looking to the future?

The installation of perforated pipe essentially is creating a low pressure area for water to flow to. If the surrounding soils do not allow water to permeate then the pipe is useless. Fabric and stone keep sediment from clogging the pipe, and the stone actually acts to increase the drainage properties of the system.

The other key question is are you trying to deal with water coming up from the ground or water coming down onto the ground. Drain tile are ideal for ground water problems, but often a swale is the answer for surface water.

As far as the question regarding the downspouts. It would depend on the where the draintile is going to and if it is pitched. For basement applications the draintile is level--just a conduit to the sump pump. If your pitching out to a ditch than tie you downspout in perforated or solid.

Sorry for more questions than answers but I'd hate to see you do a lot of work and not get the result you want.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

More clay like than sandy soil here.

The existing problem will be mostly cured with a bulldozer. To explain briefly, this building was once a stable and the cleanings were just pushed outside and, over time, the ground level outside was higher than inside. Bulldozing will cure that so the tile is more for the future.

The water I'm looking to keep outside is the rainwater that comes running into the barn now, plain and simple. I would pitch the drain tile slightly and run it out to a natural low area between a couple different fields.

 

[neilly2]

Based on what I gather from your situation I would put the money and effort from the drain tile and put it towards landscaping as a solution.

It sounds like you have the ability to slope the property away from the barn. That is the best long term solution, as with anything, mother nature always will win and all drain tile (or anything manmade) will eventually be rendered useless. Further, with clay soil a perf. drain pipe will only serve as a collector drain for surface water (shallow trench with stone up to the surface, or maybe a little topsoil over it). You would have to grade the area towards this type of drain anyway. A drain tile really is meant to 'absorb' water from its surrounding area (like a reverse septic field). Clay won't let the water move.

You did mention putting down a concrete slab at some point. If you do, place it over clean stone. Then you run a perf. drain along the outside perimeter about 8" below grade and continue the clean stone into that trench. Then, any water or moisture that comes up from below will flow through the stone to the drain keeping moisture away from slab. No freeze/thaw cracking.

 

[DiskDoctr]

All,

This is a product I was considering for a new house with a below grade basement.

Drainage board

This goes against your wall and provides a vertical drain the full length of the wall into the drain pipe at the bottom.

Looked like a nice system.

-JC

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

I could handle the bulk of the problem on one side with landscaping fairly easily. I'm still going to put drain tile there, anyhow.

The other side, however, would require major excavation rather than basic grading and landscaping so tile will have to do the work there. All I wanted to know was how far from the building wall I should trench and, while I've gotten a lot of other information, I still don't know that miniimum and maximum measurement for my situation. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[dummy]

IMO, I would place it anywhere between the drip line and the wall no more than 12" below grade, pipe, sock and gravel bed. I would also run my downspout drains separate, but at the same time.

Dale

 

[Currmudgeon]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It sounds like you have the ability to slope the property away from the barn. That is the best long term solution, )</font>

I concur. A swale will carry a helluva lot more water than any tile. If you can grade a shallow ditch or swale line around the barn, and pitch everything to that, then you'll be better off. Try to keep the slopes to 2% minimum (1/4 in / ft) so it will drain and not develop frog sanctuaries.

 

[Currmudgeon]

There's no magic distance to place the tile away from the building. 5-10 feet usually works and keeps you away from foundations and things. Remember that the water between the tile line and the building may still want to flow to the building unless you grade it away.

A tile will only carry a limited amount of water, unless you build a subway tunnel, so you may want to consider using a ditch and berm on the uphill slope. Lay out a ditchline to intercept the hillside flow and carry it around the barn. Cut the ditch and cast the spoil on the downhill side to make a low dike. You get a section like a shallow, Lazy N. The flow line of the ditch can even be dead flat if you want to put a tile in the bottom to dry it up.

You can do the layout by eye, just watch to see where the water wants to go, and direct it that way.

 

[weedsportpete]

If I may resurrect an old thread.. I am facing a very similar situation - need to get water away from a pole barn. I am torn between a swale and a drain.

My soil is hard clay, so that would / should point to using a swale, but the excavation pad for the pole barn was cut into the side of a hill, and I'm thinking that the lowest point of the swale would be the exact borderline between the hill and the excavation pad.

I did not pay much attention to the pad when it was dug and compacted (how I wish I had been lurking here for a year before getting the pole barn put in!), so I don't know how deep or thick it is. If I dig a swale, do I have to dig down lower than the pad?

The area between the borderline and the barn is about 16 feet and is already slightly sloped away from the barn, and originally a (about) 16" drain trench was cut right down the borderline, but no pipe was put in. I have not kept up with it and it has half filled in and there is standing water (frog sanctuary). One long side of the barn is cut into the hill, and one short side also, and the 'drain' is cut on both of these sides, starts on the 'high' end of the long side, turns the corner and runs past the short side.

It is correct to assume, given that the compacted pad was made up of the same hard clay material that was excavated, that a swale is still the correct solution?

I think the existing swale drops no more than 4" in 16' - should I cut that steeper?

Should I fill in the 'drain trench' ? Or cut it out / clean it out? There is no pipe in it, or rocks, or anything.

There is also a gravel driveway, right in the middle of the long side that is cut into the hill and crosses the drain and swale and goes to a door in the side of the barn. Where it crosses the trench, there is a 6" pipe. I'm hoping that I don't have to mess with that.

 

[Highbeam]

"If I install gutters (which I intend to do) should I run that water into and through the same drain tile or into and through a separate, non-perforated plastic pipe?"

Never run downspouts into the footing drain. You will be essentially pumping the downspout water into the footings. Solid pipe downspouts to daylight away from the building.

Maintain the existing ditches and swales. Surface drainage is the first thing to deal with and then tackle groundawater if it is still a problem.