when do you toss a cylinder?

[daugen]

I have little experience with hydraulic cylinders, other than what I read in the Northern Tools catalog. Never had one break before.
And now on my new bucket/grapple, one of the two small upper cylinders is leaking nicely. Could well be operator abuse so I'm keeping an open mind.
Though the implement is seriously heavy duty otherwise.

What breaks on cylinders? Bending the rod? Pushing out an end seal?
Easily could have been some side pressures applied.
Just curious; headed in for warranty repair next week.
It's a small cylinder but hard to see in there due to the covers on top.

Are these things normally repairable, or if say the rod is bent, they head to get recycled?
thanks
Drew

 

[DT86]

Thats a bummer!

I've never messed one up so bad that it couldn't be fixed with the proper parts... Yet at least.

 

[BIG DOOLEY]

I have little experience with hydraulic cylinders, other than what I read in the Northern Tools catalog. Never had one break before.
And now on my new bucket/grapple, one of the two small upper cylinders is leaking nicely. Could well be operator abuse so I'm keeping an open mind.
Though the implement is seriously heavy duty otherwise.

What breaks on cylinders? Bending the rod? Pushing out an end seal?
Easily could have been some side pressures applied.
Just curious; headed in for warranty repair next week.
It's a small cylinder but hard to see in there due to the covers on top.

Are these things normally repairable, or if say the rod is bent, they head to get recycled?
thanks
Drew

should be able to get a seal kit.
disassemble and inspect the shaft for scratches, gouges and straightness.
you may find a bad seal when you inspect
if you have acces to a lathe you could have it spun and look for runout.
no lathe
find an extremely flat surface and have someone hold a light behind it. roll on the flat surface and look for light on the bottom where it meets the flat surface as you roll it.
use small feeler gauges and try to pass between the flat surface and the shaft at different locations as you roll into different positions .
Maybe you have a pressure relief/bypass too high for the cylinder rating?

 

[wdchyd]

A machine is only as good as it's weakest part.....guess you found it

Before you send it in for warranty repairs, do yourself a favor.......with the cyl off the equipment, pull the rod all the way out, then rotate the rod (to see if it's bent), then see if the rod is wiggling in the gland (to see if the gland is sloppy or egged out)

If the rod is bent or gland is not snug then the seals will blow out, guaranteed.......then time for a new one

While you have it out, check for cyl stroke travel......the cyl shouldn't be pushing around corners (if a stick gets in there and the cyl binds when extending the rod will bend)

 

[texasjohn]

Can't see how picking up those wood pieces would abuse the grapple. Yep, it leaks. At least it is a discrete part that can be dealt with without too much disassembly.

To answer your question, there are people who repair all sorts of hydraulic cylinders. Everything can be replaced, rods, glands, etc...it is just a matter of material cost, labor cost and time to accomplish. Sometimes, for a standard size, it's just more cost effective to replace. All depends. This should be covered by warranty, I would anticipate.

 

[daugen]

I kind of suspect either repair/replacement to the cylinder will be covered this time. But when closing the grapple fingers, the distance between the individual fingers is sometimes the size of the log round, and things get stuck.
Trying to "rub" them off on other wood is likely the cause of this damage, or possible just getting pushed on from the wrong direction. I've picked up some logs that taxed the capacity of the FEL and the grapple could barely hang on to the log. Am also thinking that those "stressful moments" might have contributed, but this is all speculation.

The cylinder is fairly short. There is only so much room under that cover. So going larger isn't likely an option. Are tie rod style cylinders stronger? Are US made cylinders better? (no HF cylinder is going on my Kubota...)
Also wondered if it wouldn't be a good idea to change out those hydraulic lines to armored ones, or at least put a protective cover over the oem lines. Lots of sticks and other sharp things, multiflora rose, getting in that area.
Would the electronics style plastic covers, the "twirly" ones that spread apart, would they be useful here?

Since 4shorts only plays in snow with his Kubota, he's probably the wrong person to ask, but if anyone has replaced those lines to "improve them", he likely has.
Visions of hydraulic oil spraying over the windshield have me wondering...
At the moment I have a slow leak that doesn't seem to be getting worse.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Those small cylinders are rather cheap to replace. I would just buy a new one, or take the old one off myself and get a new one from the dealer if it is warranty. Doesnt look like enough of a job to have to haul the tractor in for repair.

 

[daugen]

Those small cylinders are rather cheap to replace. I would just buy a new one, or take the old one off myself and get a new one from the dealer if it is warranty. Doesnt look like enough of a job to have to haul the tractor in for repair.

Agreed. Since the tractor had to go back for another hydraulic pressure test, we are combining a few issues. Dealer isn't far away which is good and their rollback operator is a nice guy, plus this one is likely on the house.
They are also installing a "tilt" cylinder on my three point, so now I have top and tilt. While it's under warranty, I'll let them do most of the wrenching. But my time will come.

 

[texasjohn]

When you take a hydraulic line apart, you discover that it is numerous layers of tough stuff, including metal braiding. Sure, something COULD always catch stuff just wrong and mess a line up. However, I expect that thorns on bushes, etc. will not be a real problem. I'd wait and fix a problem when it actually occurs rather than fix something that isn't yet broke. That said, I don't have a grapple thus haven't faced the problem personally. Any extra armor, other than a metal cover, doesn't sound to me like it would be particularly effective in preventing problems...you are dealing with extremely powerful forces, hydraulic and diesel, so, best solution is to watch for things catching the lines while you are using the grapple.

 

[Willl]

Sure it's leaking at the seal ?

Maybe it's a leak at a hose fitting or the hose itself.

 

[john_bud]

Prior to panicing, it's very likely that it's something simple and free or very cheap to repair.
Run the cylinder out of the grapple and see where it's leaking;

1) check hose fittings for tightness.
2) check hoes for the end coming off of the rubber hose (it happens)
3) check that the cylinder gland is not loose (if it is a screw in/on gland)

 

[Clint S]

To give an idea I just had the boom cylinder rebuilt on my back hoe. $234 included total rebuild /repack including a new cylinder as mine had a nick. They also had to cut the eye off the old cylinder and weld it to the new one. I considered that fairy reasonable

 

[PILOON]

Another repair, just to give U an idea\
3 yrs ago, 24" X 1" lift cyl with badly scored shaft,
made new shaft, all seals packing etc and a 16" hose (should have removed it) including paint cost me $140.00

 

[daugen]

I appreciate all the input guys. I did check for fitting tightness, where I could get to. Truthfully too lazy to unbolt the cover so I could see better, figured it was three month's old, let
the dealer fix it since I had to take the tractor back in for a hydraulic check anyway.

cylinders for this size equipment, not large, don't seem that expensive, in the 100 to 300 dollar range. Likely to just be changed out under warranty, assuming the dealer can reproduce the leak.
It's a slow leak, so I've continued to use the tractor and grapple just fine, obviously keeping an eye on it and my fluid levels.
The question I'm curious about is if the dealer will try to renovate the cylinder or just chuck it into the metal recycling bin. Sounds like most can get fixed, which is good.

more later when I hear back from the dealer. I got all my wood done yesterday, so now it's many days of running the log splitter. Good time for the tractor to be away.

 

[wdchyd]

daugen,

If the dealer does s-can the old cyl into the recycle bin, make sure you ask if you can get it from them......it'll do them no good, but will be good for you as spare parts or rebuild it yourself or an education of what it looks like inside

 

[daugen]

daugen,

If the dealer does s-can the old cyl into the recycle bin, make sure you ask if you can get it from them......it'll do them no good, but will be good for you as spare parts or rebuild it yourself or an education of what it looks like inside

Of course, one has to wonder if the goof folks in SC where it was made want a look at that cylinder too. Technically if they replace the part under warranty, don't they get to keep it/"salvage rights" on the part?
If no one wants it, I'd rather do exactly as you suggest, take it apart and fix it or part it if possible. If something is obviously bent, I'll take a picture of it. Just curious what fails.

Is there a brand of cylinder that is US made and of known high quality? I think I need to get to know them...
and I would still like to know if tie rods help overall. thanks

 

[Willl]

So your positive its the cylinder leaking ?

 

[daugen]

Prior to panicing, it's very likely that it's something simple and free or very cheap to repair.
Run the cylinder out of the grapple and see where it's leaking;

1) check hose fittings for tightness.
2) check hoes for the end coming off of the rubber hose (it happens)
3) check that the cylinder gland is not loose (if it is a screw in/on gland)

thanks, no panic, it still works fine, just drips a bit.
cylinder gland, well, not sure which part that is. The outer seal?

 

[daugen]

So your positive its the cylinder leaking ?

no, but saw no damage or leaks in the lines or fittings, what I could see.
Now I wish I had taken off the cover to look further.

 

[daugen]

one more thought. The FEL can exert a lot of pressure, and if I pushed against the grapple, let's say drove it backwards
against its current position, pushing the rod into the cylinder. What gives assuming it isn't driven through the other end?
Seems to me the most likely culprit would be the outer retainer (the cylinder gland? sorry) that got crushed under a side force.
But I also could have, shall we say, compressed that cylinder against its will. Maybe normal wear and tear, or poor operating procedure,
and not necessarily a bonafide warranty claim. But with forty hours on the tractor, my guestimate would be a first time replacement.

The dealer is also working on the hydraulic system, increasing its overall pressure. Now I don't think this cylinder "popped its cork" from overpressure, but
rather from an overwhelming opposing force. Which begs the question, do I need bigger, stronger cylinders? I'll hold on that until I find out, if I do, what went
wrong. Springing a leak with no visible damage in less than forty hours of operation is not a situation I would like to repeat.