Wheel and tire swap for L4760

[fishpick]

I hate posts that never come to a conclusion (especially when folks offer input and advice)... because I always seem to the be the guy who finds said post for my question and never get an answer... so - here's where I'm at.

Went to a local Bobcat dealer right down the road - and talked "trade". I could unload my L4760 + FEL + front snow blower + Land Pride land plane for a CT2535 (or CT2540) + FEL + front blower + bobcat FEL attached land plane (this is so cool) + several other things + a Bobcat Zero Turn mower... and only pay a few grand out of pocket... I could ALSO trade in my older BX24 and get a additional attachment / options as well and be done - nothing out of pocket. So 2 tractors nets me a smaller tractor, added remotes on said tractor, some newer implements and a zero turn...
The thing is - the CT2535/40 chassis isn't THAT much smaller than my L4760... and the CT2540 weighs about as much - so - same issue with the yard (except R4's) - and life does not distill down / simplify to one unit - would have the zero turn... that ONLY mows. I did legit love the lever on the back of the Bobcat to raise and lower the lift arms when you are back there getting an implement on - I saw one of those on a Mahindra years ago - and can't believe it's on on every single tractor ever made since then.

So - while the deal is really good and I love the dealership (bought my first TC45DA years ago from them and that is still my favorite tractor ever) - I dunno that it changes much except I lose the small BX backhoe (gets used once every couple of years but when you have it - its great) and small loader if i need to get into tight spaces - and i get a zero turn to make mowing "faster".

So this got me reconsidering the tire swap math...

So - being a bit nerdy and attempting to quantify the choices based off input above and numbers... here's the numbers by the tire.

	Front Width	Rear Width
Ag (R1)	8.3"	14.9"
Turf (R3)	12.5	24"
Industrial (R4)	10"	17.5"

I then took the current ag tire and tractor weight - assuming a physical 3" wide contact patch of the tire on the ground - and did math... calculating the tractor weight per square inc of the tire - and then normalized to a numerical value I'm calling GDF - or ground destruction factor... This should give a mathematical representation of the impact of changing a tire on the amount of carnage endured on soft lawn surfaces - so here we go:

So for example - my current R1's - the front tire is 8.3" wide and I'm using the 3" wide contact patch - (yea I know lugs change it, load changes it, just relax) - that front tire has a contact patch of 8.3 * 3 = 24.9"... rear math is 14.9" * 3" = 44.7"

So - the L4760 is 4222 pounds + the loader on the front adds another whopping 1411# for a total of 5633. AND... I have Rim Guard in the rears... so let's say for just simplicity and sake of argument that plus me and any tools puts us at a conservative 6200#.

Now - again - just for simplicity - we are going to assume a 40/60 split on weight distribution with the loader on and bucket attached... it might be a little different but we will keep this ratio consistent for the sake of the comparison. That puts 40% of 6200 = 2480# on the front axle and 3720# on the rear... then take each axle number and divide by 2, beacuse there are two wheels per axle... so that's 1240 per wheel in the front and 1860 per wheel in the rear... and now we have all the numbers we need for some fun!

We can start calculating the Ground Destruction Factor that the tires have - again - omitting the impact of lugs which make it worse by effectively reducing the contact patch until the lug has bottomed out and not accounting for turning or other factors... This is just a straight line point A to B with loader on across wet lawn calculation...

First we need to know the pounds per square in the tire conveys to the surface via the contact patch.

PSI R1	49.7991968​	41.6107383​
PSI R3	33.0666667​	25.8333333​
PSI R4	41.3333333​	35.4285714​

And then we can normalize the R1's to assume their Ground Destruction Factor is GDF = 100 (by dividing it by itself * 100)... and then we divide all the other weights per tire by the standard we have in the R1 - so see how much more or less their GDF is - mathematically.

GDF R1	100​	100​
GDF R3	66​	62​
GDF R4	83​	85​

So - "math" says the R4's should be about 35% less destructive on the front and the R4's should be about 15% less destructive. Realistically the turfs are probably better than that by a fair bit and the R4's by a little bit - because - back to what I keep saying... "LUGS".

Thinking about the R3's - adding chains if needed - gives you the lugs.

So for about $3K - I can get a full set of R3's (probably not loaded) - and likely NOT destroy the yard to such a degree - and if needed - add a set of chains.

I am going to go look at a LX2610 and see what that looks like - It's a LOT lighter than the Bobcat - and when I do my GDF math on that with the R4's - it looks like they come out to about 25 PSI and a GDF of about 60 in the front and 62 in the rear...

I dunno - was a slow morning - spreadsheets are fun - now I gotta go do something useful...

 

[JWR]

Interesting analysis -- and obviously you are deep into it which resembles me and things I do... Sometimes the detailed analysis and elaborate numbers can obscure the actual outcome. Sometimes. I've made that mistake more than once. I like the idea you have a good friendly/cooperative Bobcat dealer nearby. Worth it's weight in gold. If you are going to make the move I weight that very heavily.

Working my way up to a suggestion: Why not try out one of these machines on your property ? You have the numbers, now go get the actual feel/touch/smell/see.

 

[fishpick]

Here's the conclusion to my story (almost)...

I looked at a Kioti and was impressed (obviously same as the Bobcat) - they have come a long way and I wouldn't be scared to buy one - they should really give Kubota & JD a run for their money - since a Kioti seems to categorically have more features for fewer dollars. That little CX2510HSTC comes loaded with remotes!

I also saw a guy in a church parking lot with a LX2610... I pulled in and talked with him for a while - he let me in it, drive it, screw around with it.

While the LX is a nice platform... and if it was my first cab I might think it was the best... Man ohh man does the LX NOT compete with the L4760 in terms of the HST, layout, general comfort. Perhaps the single most "this is not a deluxe cab" feature - IMHO - was the fact the freakin fuse box and battery get kicked when you move your feet across the platform. Like - honestly - my 20 year old BX has a crappy plastic shroud covering that... and inside the cab - to not cover that is just cheap on Kubota - it very much diminishes the inside of the cab space... and there are other "super silly to anyone who does not own a Grand L" corners cut. Like - the steering wheel tilt pedal doesn't have a nice little grippy rubber cap on it, the loader joysick is just a little high, the dash is just less feature-full... the engine itself was noisier - but - it was also the LX2610 - so no electronic injection / DPF... more old school for sure - if that's your thing - but also less refined. To each his own tho. Nothing wrong with the LX but...

Bottom line - anything I found I didn't like on the LX is because the Grand L spoiled me - simple. (the only thing that would make me consider NOT buying an LX is the fact the HST is not very good - it's loud AF and it's got way too much "jerk / lurch" - not as bad as my BX24 - but way closer to the BX24 than I'd like)

The Kioti dealer guy and the Bobcat guy both would let me do a consignment of my tractor - taking 8% and 5% respectively - giving me the cash before sale on a Kioti CX2510HSTC or a Bobcat CT2535 (with loader and blower on both) - and let me keep the extra cash.

I did talk to my Kubota dealer who rocks - and they will do an even swap for me - my Grand L4760 + FEL + 72" snow blower for a LX3311 + FEL + 60" snow blower... fairly good deal to downsize and not spend out of pocket... losing about what you would expect on a trade in general.

In my conversation with my Kubota dealer - after he went through the work of getting the quote and knowing where some components of the deal could be sourced from - I asked him "if you were in my shoes - what would you do" :
(laughter)
"Well - every single time I get in a Grand L I think how comfortable and nice this platform is. I honestly think it's probably the best HST the company makes. It's just so comfortable. Also the older I get the more I find I use the forks to lift and move everything. If you are telling me the only real reason you are looking to downsize is because of the lawn being destroyed - if I had the 4760 and that was my only issue to using it - I'd lighten the 4670 as much as I could and if I could swing the $3 grand for turfs - I would try that before I got rid of the L. Hands down. I wouldn't personally be happy going form an L to an LX. They are nice but from an L to an LX is not an upgrade in anything."

Sooooo, I'm doing none of those deals above to start.

I'm gonna see if we can get a set of R3 turf wheels and tires to start (he got pricing - now we have to look at supply chain BS). If we can - I'm going to have them take the tractor to the shop and pull the Ag wheels - and drain the rim guard out of them - making each rear wheel at least 500# lighter - I'm keeping the ag wheels / tires (unless they have someone who wants to buy them becasue they don't want them sitting around their shop) - In theory then I could swap them back on if I ever need the heavy traction without needing a forktruck to put them in place... If I go a year and never think I need them - I'll put them on craigslist or this forum or something for a reasonable price. I suppose if we CAN'T get turfs and CAN get R4's... then I'll need to do a bit of soul searching on that as the price tag is gonna be the same... but 100% will not be as kind to the lawn... And my experience with R4's on anything other than hard ground (read : in mud) is rubbish - like abhorent why am I stuck so bad so fast where is the hell is the wheel it's a ball of clay - what happened? that sort of bad. Of course chains on that JD made them just fine - so it's not completely off the table.

So - back where I started with some fun along the way!

 

[JWR]

I'm with ya. I'd sure try to find a set of turf tires/wheels by beating on eBay and Craigs list , etc. before buying them. That is going to cost up the yingyang. But the idea of having BOTH is a great option. You already have a good tractor, probably BETTER than you would trade into, and tires/wheels solves your problem as you perceive it. Having both lets you experience it both ways & is win-win if you can afford it.

You might contact some of the salvage yards [like Wengers of Myerstown in NE PA] which dismantle all sorts of tractors for parts which they warehouse. They MIGHT either have a set of wheels/tires you need or point you to someone else who does. Wengers are really good to deal with and help in oddball circumstances. I've had much help from them over the years. It would be worth a pickup truck trip down there for you if they came up with the wheels/tires.

That L4760 is one nice machine in so many ways, sort of in the upper end of compacts -- weight, HP, size, and apparently you like the cab (I never owned a cab.) I had a JD4700 about that size & it was one of the best all around I have ever seen. I sold it only because of want/need for a larger machine.