What's Wrong with this Fireplace?

   / What's Wrong with this Fireplace? #1  

Creamer

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
2,971
Location
NE Indiana
Tractor
1710 Ford, Versatile 150
If I read all of the postings on on the web on woodburning fireplace inserts I am doing about everything wrong but it makes sense to me and today, when I pulled the insert for the annual chimney check before I light it up, the chimney looked cleaner than it has in years. There was about 3/16" of loose black material on top of the insert and coating the smoke chamber's walls but in shining a light up the chimney it looked totally clean, i.e. bare clay tile. The coating on the smoke chamber's walls was removed with a soft bristle brush that I sweep my hearth with (I scooped up about 2 qts that I brushed down). Here's the set-up:

Basement fireplace on a two story house. Fireplace was added in 1973. About 15' wide brick unit.
Clay tile chimney with exterior brick. Tile is 8" x 10" and it was nicely done - very smooth mortar joints.
Fireplace insert was purchased used 20 years ago - weighs about 300 lbs with large firebox approx. 20 W x 16.5 H after modifications. Width tapers from 28 to 18". Double wall with forced air unit.
I modified the fireplace unit to add better flue control and a large baffle to assist with extracting more BTUs/cord of wood
Insert is open into the chimney - do direct connection. It is sealed all around the front.
Chimney is open on top and probably 25' tall to get above the 2 story roof.
I burn only dry wood but am not **** about it. Mostly oak, maple, ash, and elm.
Usually once I start a fire it is continuous the rest of the winter. It is a secondary heat source.
Usually when I have a fire burning you can stand outside and not see anything coming out of the chimney unless you really look close.
I burn about 6 cords annually in this insert.

When I read the recommendations I see that I am missing a modern, EPA approved insert, I have an excessively large chimney (should be 4" round double or triple insulated stainless steel), and I should have a direct connection from the insert to the chimney liner.

Prior to my modifications to the insert I was getting a thin black creosote layer on the chimney but nothing serious. Now I get at least twice the BTUs/cord I used to and the fire will last all day or all night.

Are the recommendations wrong or I am I living dangerously?
 
   / What's Wrong with this Fireplace? #2  
Creamer;4301921 (I scooped up about[B said:
2 qts[/B] that I brushed down).
Tile is 8" x 10" and it was nicely done - very smooth mortar joints.
Fireplace insert was purchased used 20 years ago -
I burn only dry wood but am not **** about it.
Usually once I start a fire it is continuous the rest of the winter.
Usually when I have a fire burning you can stand outside and not see anything coming out of the chimney
I burn about 6 cords annually in this insert.
Prior to my modifications to the insert I was getting a thin black creosote layer on the chimney but nothing serious. Now I get at least twice the BTUs/cord I used to and the fire will last all day or all night.
Sound's like you have a good set up!
 
   / What's Wrong with this Fireplace? #3  
No fireplace/woodstove expert here, but sounds like between steady burning and nice dry wood you will be ok. Minimal smoke sounds like it's burning efficiently also. As long as you maintain it as you have been - I wouldn't expect any issues.
 
   / What's Wrong with this Fireplace? #4  
Seems mostly good.
AND: You state: ..."I am missing a modern, EPA approved insert, I have an excessively large chimney (should be 4" round double or triple insulated stainless steel), and I should have a direct connection from the insert to the chimney liner".

You did not mention the insert's outlet diameter. Let's say it's 6" round, or equivalent. The most sound thing to do would be to insert a stainless steel single wall pipe from the insert's outlet all the way to the top of the chimney, and cap off the tile with suitable spark retardant SS cap.
Lining the chimney tile with a pipe and using the tile as the flue is NOT the best practice. Tile, over time can shift, crack and similar problems can occur.
With a stainless liner the size of the insert's outlet diameter you eliminate this possibility of tile issues, AND create a sealed vent from insert to exterior air source. And you are using the diameter of the insert's 'exhaust' port as was intended when your insert was built. You will get even better output this way, and it's a once and done job.
You may have to buy a short section of flex SS pipe depending on how your firebox of your chimney is designed. Screw the SS pipe to the insert's outlet and to whatever cap you install at the chimney's top exit. Use fire rated silicone caulk to seal the cap to the tile as needed.
 
   / What's Wrong with this Fireplace? #5  
I owned and ran a chimney sweep company for about 4 years, and I learned a few things. Of all of the chimneys I cleaned only one had a problem with the clay tiles and It had had a bad chimney fire. Also the larger the chimney the better it drew and less likely to stop up. I know nothing about new modern stuff but what you are doing sounds good to me, compared to what I saw when I was cleaning chimneys. Ed
 
   / What's Wrong with this Fireplace?
  • Thread Starter
#6  
I did forget to mention that I am using Rutland Creosote remover once per week as recommended.
 
   / What's Wrong with this Fireplace? #7  
I owned and ran a chimney sweep company for about 4 years, and I learned a few things. Of all of the chimneys I cleaned only one had a problem with the clay tiles and It had had a bad chimney fire. Also the larger the chimney the better it drew and less likely to stop up. I know nothing about new modern stuff but what you are doing sounds good to me, compared to what I saw when I was cleaning chimneys. Ed

That's exactly what I was referring to- tile lined chimneys that have a chimney fire the first time, then the compromised structure/cracks, missing mortar, allow the next fire to burn down the house.

I did forget to mention that I am using Rutland Creosote remover once per week as recommended.

Their products are top notch.
 
   / What's Wrong with this Fireplace?
  • Thread Starter
#8  
The only thing I can attribute the clean tile liner when I look up the chimney is the Rutland product because it did have a very thin layer on it before - at least enough for it to be totally black

Thanks everyone for your comments.
 
   / What's Wrong with this Fireplace? #9  
That's exactly what I was referring to- tile lined chimneys that have a chimney fire the first time, then the compromised structure/cracks, missing mortar, allow the next fire to burn down the house.

The difference I see is you talk like it is a common thing, I only saw ONE in 4 years of looking down chimneys. I have seen many chimney fires. I was a vol. fireman for 10 years and worked many chimney fires but that is the only ONE that I ever saw that was a problem Ed
 
   / What's Wrong with this Fireplace?
  • Thread Starter
#10  
22 years ago in another chimney I had a chimney fire where I had a fireplace insert that I had kept turned down a lot and then I got up one cold morning and threw a bunch of dry wood in and when I left to go to work I could see a bunch of smoke and sparks coming out of the chimney. It scared me because I was new to burning wood and had a friend who had a chimney fire that about lost his house - so I called the fire department. Even though the fire department is less than a mile away by the time they got there the fire was basically out. I inspected the chimney and saw that there was no damage it had just burned the creosote out. Fortunately there hadn't been enough creosote on there to get anything hot enough to cause the damage. Since then I have paid a lot more attention to how the fire is burning and what is happening and have never had another issue. I also keep a fire extinguisher and a ChimFex near the fireplace just in case.
 

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