What NOT TO do!!

[Marlowe]

I suspect that you already understand that the loader you bought is way too light duty for the tractor to which it is attached. The 4wd had little if anything to do with the failure. My little 2wd unit will handle near 1000lb. over and over while I ram the bucket into the material I'm wanting to lift, again, over and over. The only bent part on the whole assembly is part of my home made tooth bar, and even that is irrelevant. Most quality attachments I've seen for tractors are overbuilt for the abuse they will likely endure. It's all part of the game. I don't abuse my equipment, but I darn sure use it.

 

[greg_g]

I believe he should look into the implied merchantability of his unit and either have the dealer fix the problem (preferably with a new loader) or refund his money, or check on the price of a new loader and see what the maximum amount he can sue for under the small claim act in his state. If it is for enough I would sue the dealer for the cost of a new loader, put all that has happened in front of a judge including pictures and a detailed account of what he was doing when it broke and possibly if he can get a witness that has a similar tractor with a different loader. Then I would let a small claim court judge make the decision about it.

Absolutely ridiculous. Litigious attitudes like that are part of what's wrong with America today. Dan's already fess'd up to abusing the second loader. Remember - the dealer already replaced/repaired the first one for him. He went right back into the 2nd one with his eyes wide open.

What is your suggestion he should do ?

I figured Dan sounded level-headed enough to sort out his own problem. But if you insist, I'd fix the thing - then sell it to a SCUT owner, and mark the whole experience down as a lesson learned. then I'd use the proceeds to make a downpayment on the right tool for the job.

//greg//

 

[Soundguy]

The biggest catch i see is that if the specs on that bucket/loader are sufficiently low.. then the jobs it can perform will be very low key.. I.E. I don't see a loader with.. for instance, less than 1k# rating.. to be a stump puller.. I see popping out stumps as a warranty voider.. etc. It's size and application. A 80 ton track hoe can dig stumps all day.. and was meant to.. on the other hand.. a tractor that is near the border of scut/cut with a ? light duty? bucket and frame? I'm not so sure that propping it's edge against an immoveable object and then pouring the throttle to it will be very good for the unit.. or the warranty.. .. it may look more like.. uh.. user abuse.

If i was on a jurry ( I know.. small claims won't have this ).. I'd have to take into account that the loader and machine -may- be being used past it's acceptable limit.. and any damage that results, the owner is somewhat responsible for.. perhaps not 100%.. but some reasonable percentage..... just my .02.. I know the 1-arm loader on my old ford 660 from 1955 will dig in and make the rear wheels eventually spin and lug the engine down with absolutely no damage to the tractor or loader... It will also absolutely flatten both front tires trying to lift something. So far I've not managed to pop the relief on that 4gpm/1700psi pump... even lifting round hay bales...something i don't think it was meant for.. especially since it has a low capacity maneuer bucket and tongs on it...that's the only 'cut' I have driven lately with a loader that i can use as a comparison... deffinately not apples to apples.. however.. one would think a modern, double armed loader design would be more robust than a lopsided single arm design from the 50's...

Soundguy

With all the respect I can muster which might not be much. I am going to suggest that if you are worried about his ongoing loader problem then you dont make comments about something happening twice being a customer related issue and instead focus on a solution. My suggestion for a solution has been outlined in previous posts of which my hose example was only a small part of. I believe he should look into the implied merchantability of his unit and either have the dealer fix the problem (preferably with a new loader) or refund his money,
or check on the price of a new loader and see what the maximum amount he can sue for under the small claim act in his state. If it is for enough I would sue the dealer for the cost of a new loader, put all that has happened in front of a judge including pictures and a detailed account of what he was doing when it broke and possibly if he can get a witness that has a similar tractor with a different loader. Then I would let a small claim court judge make the decision about it. What is your suggestion he should do ?

 

[thingy]

This just gets better and better,thingy

 

[greg_g]

This just gets better and better,thingy

Back in your box Richard, or you'll start setting records for how many forums a person can get banned from.

//greg//

 

[JohnS]

If you go to Koyker's website and look at the user manual for the 160, you will get a good dose after reading all the warnings and warrantee. The 160 is on the large size for a 200 series Jinma. Many dealers fit that series with 140s. Both can handle much more than the FEL pictured here.

****!!! I spilled my coffee while typing this!!! There was no warning on the TBN site! Someone is at fault! Someone must pay!

Ok, now I'm off my litigation soapbox. Besides we might as well hit double digits on the # pages on this thread.

 

[greg_g]

If I read the post correctly...

See - here's the problem. Either you still haven't read the entire topic, or you simply don't understand what you've read. In http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/1022098-post45.html Dan's exact words were "I know I what was doing the second time around was too much for a normal loader. "

I think this particular argument should end now.

//greg//

 

[johnk]

I would be pretty mad if my loader ripped apart because I was in 2wd and pushing mud. It's a tractor for Gods sake. ..It's not like he ran it into a concrete wall. Any person would want it replaced or get their money back. I have seen buckets bent but not arms and braces peeled back pushing mud. Even if he was in 4 WD pushing Hard pack it shouldn't have happened. Not to continue an argument. Just my feelings and opinion. I feel sorry for the guy. Put yourself in that position...

 

[gemini5362]

I know I what was doing the second time around was too much for a normal loader. I was pushing dirt (mostly mud), I was in 2 wheel drive in a large mud hole.

I am going to fix it my self this time and put in 1/4 metal not 1/8" like is on there.

The brackets that hold the tilt ram on just peel off like a tin can.

I thought about selling it but I really like the hydraulics.

The crazy thing is the loader is made in the USA is about the only problem I have had with the tractor.

Dan in an earlier post you said you know that you did not do anything to break it you were pushing dirt in this post you said what you were doing was too much for a normal loader. Do you feel the second loader was broken because you were trying to push to large a volume of mud with it ?
or was this a mistype ?

 

[gemini5362]

See - here's the problem. Either you still haven't read the entire topic, or you simply don't understand what you've read. In http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/1022098-post45.html Dan's exact words were "I know I what was doing the second time around was too much for a normal loader. "

I think this particular argument should end now.

//greg//

I actually have read the entire topic what i did do was misread what dan said in that post. I have asked him to clarify what he meant. and if you would like this arguement to end you can quite responding to my posts if you like. I kind of liked it better when I got out of the navy and went to work as a civilian tech reps where I told chiefs what to do.

 

[thingy]

Greg,my man,huh? thingy

 

[fishmasterdan]

Sorry guy There has been several bad storms up here in WA and I have had over 100 trees fall across my road not to mention my fence had to replaced twice now in 2 different sections, so I have not been following along here.


Update. To clear some things up. I may have confused a few people here.

The first time I broke the loader I was a pretty new user of small tractors and was unaware of the abuse I has giving it, however when the loader broke it was obvious that there was a bad weld because there was rust under a weld, but I cannot blame the weld whole heartedly.

The second time I was pusing some mud/dirt. I DID NOT OVERSTRESS the loader the second time. IT broke because the metal is just to thin that supports the bucket tilt ram. As a matter of fact there is a PSI meter on the hydraulics for the loader and I know the relief kicks in at 1900 to 2000 psi that is where it maxs out lift things.
The loader will pick up approx 900lbs (my neighbor had a fully built engine and the loader really stressed picking it up and it was approx 900 lbs).


I appreciate all the comments on this topic If anything good comes out of this and people are reading the thread please look carefully at the loader you are buying. I was told mine was better than the Jinma loader's.....


I am going to have a real metal fabricator fix my loader for me (I just fixed some wiring in his house so he owe's me ). It wont cost me anything.

I have a temp fix on there now but if you would like some pictures let me know. I cannot get a picture of the break but if you look in the original pictures it is the same thing.

 

[greg_g]

The loader will pick up approx 900lbs (my neighbor had a fully built engine and the loader really stressed picking it up and it was approx 900 lbs).

The title of your topic is beginning to become more and more appropriate. I'm now starting to see why you over-estimated the capability of this loader. See Vintage Hot Rods & Classic Cars :: Resources for people restoring hot rods including classifieds, how-to's, more.

In the larger scheme of things though, that's not a bad thing. It's just one of the more expensive lessons at the School of Hard Knocks. Actually learning from one's mistakes is (hopefully) the end product.

//greg//

 

[thingy]

Rust under a fillit weld,sounds like cold lap,on one of those mig welds that every one is crazy about,if you have a weld failing on something as simple to weld as a small tractor loader,it is indeed the welds fault,welds shouldn't fail first,,the material should,,maybe the weld didn't fail first,and cause this,,can't tell from pictures,,but if you got rust under a weld leg than it is either cracked or not fused to base metal,and its been that way for a while,,you can get a lot of lack of fusion with short circuiting mig,if not done right,,,can't tell what it was welded with,,flux core and stick are less prone to have these types problems. Ask the guy who is going to fix it for you about this,,,if it was the welds failing that caused this,,there could be a case against loader seller/manufactor,,despite what all the other people have been saying.
There are ways to check for cracks on the other welds,,,but unless you have the stuff than that probably won't happen,dye penatrant,is a good way,,,,you can clean the welds of paint and look real good,,maybe with a magnifyer,,,look real close at the edges of the welds where they tie into[or not],base metal,,,thingy

 

[fishmasterdan]

Greg;
I appreciate your comments. However I am beginning to think that you might see smaller tractors as somewhat of a toy.
They are tractors, built to work. If they cannot handle doing any work than why have one?? I am in the construction industry and I see all kinds of equiptment every day that is worked hard and hardly ever broken. So yes I do expect them to be worked and not babied like an rc airplane. Lifting something that is at the tractors capacity should be well within the "working range".

 

[greg_g]

However I am beginning to think that you might see smaller tractors as somewhat of a toy.

There is some truth in that statement. I too went through the school of hard knocks determining what sized tractor and implements were the right size/power/weight/capacity for jobs I expected them to do.

They are tractors, built to work. If they cannot handle doing any work than why have one??

If you're truly in the construction industry Dan, then you'll also be familiar with another statement; use the right tool for the job. Yes, the dealer most likely put not enough loader on too much tractor. After one failure, I would have thought you were starting to get the hint. After a second failure, I would have hoped the point actually hit home.

//greg//

 

[Soundguy]

Being in the construction industry.. then you should know that there is a bit of difference from an industrial machine, and an economy ag machine.

In many cases where there is a common model between ag and industrial lines.. the industrial model is beefed up.. I.E. different drivetrain.. axles.. etc..

I wouldn't be viewing any chinese tractor in the same light as a piece of heavy equipment, int he terms of how much i could abuse it before it broke...

Not badmouthing the chinese tractors.. however they are a far cry from industrial equipment..

Just because it has a diesel engine and a front blade don't make it a caterpillar bull dozer...

Soundguy

Greg;
I They are tractors, built to work. If they cannot handle doing any work than why have one?? I am in the construction industry and I see all kinds of equiptment every day that is worked hard and hardly ever broken. So yes I do expect them to be worked and not babied like an rc airplane. Lifting something that is at the tractors capacity should be well within the "working range".

 

[gemini5362]

Dan I am glad you have someone to fix it for you for free. That is a much better option than the ones I gave you. It sounds like you are happy with the tractor and the loaders hydraulics. If you can get the fabricator to repair with heavier material that will be good. I would have him check to make sure there are not any other weak points that will give you problem. Good luck with the loader and let us know how it comes out.

 

[Gerifalte]

So which Coldwater lift rating were you talking about specifically? There's bucket lift capacity and a breakaway lift capacity. Whereas the ZL-20 is rated at 875# lift, the breakaway is 2200#. You said the Coldwater was only 1000#s. Since they don't seem to list any specs on their website, perhaps you can clarify. If in fact that particular Coldwater loader has a breakaway lift rating of only half a ton, it most certainly doesn't belong on anything stouter than a SCUT.

//greg//

Hi Greg,

I am sorry it took me so long to get back to you.

I believe the 1000lb rate I was given by the dealer was the lift capacity. I don't know the breakaway capacity though.

After looking at the original pictures, I noticed my loader has an extra set of triangular pieces of steel welded on top of the section that broke on fishmasterdan's loader. I bought the tractor recently (about 2 months ago) so perhaps they "fixed" that section after accidents like fishmasterdan were reported??