What is your "Debt Free Date"

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   / What is your "Debt Free Date" #71  
Lots of good, good thinking and points brought out in this thread but I guess most people just really dont consider the $50,000+ or so in government debt per person in this country to actually belong to them.

We have to each individually take the steps we can to limit our exposure.

Enjoyed reading this so far!
 
   / What is your "Debt Free Date" #72  
If you are 66 and retired, you are already in the socialized medicine system, and your government provided health insurance program writes a blank check for any treatment a doctor thinks necessary. Personally, I think there should be resonable limits, like if you don't have a 5% chance of living for 5 years after the treatment, you should have to pay for your own Hail Mary procedures or do without, your choice. About 40% of Medicare funds are spent in the last 6 months of life, and it's breaking the system. In many cases, the desperate last ditch medical procedures are what actually kill people.

Americans need to get over this death phobia and realize it happens to all of us. If you are going to die, drugs to make you comfortable are what you need, maybe along with some counseling to get you used to the idea that you are soon going to be toes up.

Obamacare is a private system that will require everyone to have health insurance instead of waiting until they get sick and then mooching off the rest of us. Hospitals and docs can sue them for the bills, but few people have the assets to pay, and bankruptcy courts allow them to keep their primary residence even if it is worth . Pensions and retirement accounts are also immune from garnishment, which means the country is full of well heeled deadbeats welshing on their debts while poor people end up homeless and lose everything.

I realize the Republicans have spent demonizing health insurance, but they are wrong.

While I agree with your logic it has practical flaws. I am certainly fed up with large portions of society not paying into the system making grand material purchases while I spend large amounts every month on health insurance. Then they have medical issues and their care comes for free (at our expense of course). But let me assure you, when everyone is required to have health insurance those same people will find loopholes and we will in fact be the ones paying for their insurance, falling back into the same situation we are in already. Irresponsible people will always vote for a government that gives them a free ride.
Also, who will be the judge of what is a hail mary medical practice and what is a legitimate hopeful proceedure? If I do not know the people I could pull the plug I guess but somehow the line becomes more hazy when it becomes personal, as I am sure you would find yourself.
If you expect legislation to make up for personal iresponsibility you have higher hopes than I do. But it would be nice.
 
   / What is your "Debt Free Date" #73  
I come from humble stock and my Grandparents and Father went through the Depression and early on instilled living within your means philosophy...

The Depression was made real to me as a child when my Grandmother would point out all those homes in the area that had been lost in the Depression... back then it seemed folks would do just about anything to keep the roof over their heads unlike today with many I know simply choose to walk away from a bad "Investment"

Never carried any debt other than property... with a 4% and a 3% note... I have not been in a hurry to pay them off.

I suppose I could by liquidating something... for now, I will just hold on.

I can only imagine what it would be like to have a pension... no one in my family has ever had a pension outside of social security... we just work till we can't anymore...

Everyone of my High School friends are sitting pretty right now... they all went into law enforcement, fire department or other government service... one has a 180k pension from the police department at age 51... amazing if you can get it...
 
   / What is your "Debt Free Date" #75  
I am hoping the Supremes find it unconstitutional as soon as possible.

I am 66 and retired. If I ever become seriously ill, the custodians of Obamacare are going to look at me and see a "useless eater", collecting far more social security than I am worth and that I should get care in the form of drugs to keep me comfortable while I die, if I am even worth that much.

If I am paying for my own care, I am going to put up more of a fight than that.

:thumbsup: Dave
 
   / What is your "Debt Free Date" #76  
The key there is struggling, I bought a few new vehicles when I could afford them and have no regrets.

The problem some struggling people face is the uncertainty of a used vehicle, they can not afford that uncertainty, especially if they are not mechanically inclined. They are almost forced into the new vehicle with the warranty protection.

I May be looking at a new vehicle for my wife in the next couple of years, but have bought 3 used vehicles in the last 3 years. With 4 drivers in the house and 5th coming soon, no way we could have all new vehicles now.

Just have to hone my lost mechanical skills and work on cars more often now. It was nice for a few years of all new vehicles to never have to pop the hood or climb under a car/truck :)

JB

We have bought low priced new for years and driven them into the ground We always keep up with the maintenance. We stopped buying used when we started to have the repair work tie up the vehicle and interfere with getting to work. We always buy based on consumer report repair records and low cost.
 
   / What is your "Debt Free Date" #77  
If you are 66 and retired, you are already in the socialized medicine system, and your government provided health insurance program writes a blank check for any treatment a doctor thinks necessary. Personally, I think there should be resonable limits, like if you don't have a 5% chance of living for 5 years after the treatment, you should have to pay for your own Hail Mary procedures or do without, your choice. About 40% of Medicare funds are spent in the last 6 months of life, and it's breaking the system. In many cases, the desperate last ditch medical procedures are what actually kill people.

Americans need to get over this death phobia and realize it happens to all of us. If you are going to die, drugs to make you comfortable are what you need, maybe along with some counseling to get you used to the idea that you are soon going to be toes up.

Obamacare is a private system that will require everyone to have health insurance instead of waiting until they get sick and then mooching off the rest of us. Hospitals and docs can sue them for the bills, but few people have the assets to pay, and bankruptcy courts allow them to keep their primary residence even if it is worth . Pensions and retirement accounts are also immune from garnishment, which means the country is full of well heeled deadbeats welshing on their debts while poor people end up homeless and lose everything.

I realize the Republicans have spent demonizing health insurance, but they are wrong.

What makes you think that when everyone has government mandated health insurance, that there will be more doctors, staff and locations for everyone to go and get medical treatment?

Where will the money come for to pay for all the additional doctors, staff and hospitals that it will take to take care of all those who where not gettng medical treatment before?

Lawsuits and federal regulations are the biggest expense of medical treatment. Obama Care makes it easier to sue and increased the government regulations. It will make it harder and more expensive to get treatment.

If this is good for the country, why wont Obama run on it as an achievement?

If this is good for employees, why are they trying to get exemptions from having to be under it?

Why did Congress exempt themselves, their staff, their family and everybody else in government from having to be under Obama Care?

Obamacare: Top 10 Reasons It's Wrong for America

RealClearPolitics - What Else Is Wrong With ObamaCare?

What Else Is Wrong with Obamacare? It's not just the mandate.

Eddie
 
   / What is your "Debt Free Date" #78  
What makes you think that when everyone has government mandated health insurance, that there will be more doctors, staff and locations for everyone to go and get medical treatment?

Where will the money come for to pay for all the additional doctors, staff and hospitals that it will take to take care of all those who where not gettng medical treatment before?

Lawsuits and federal regulations are the biggest expense of medical treatment. Obama Care makes it easier to sue and increased the government regulations. It will make it harder and more expensive to get treatment.

If this is good for the country, why wont Obama run on it as an achievement?

If this is good for employees, why are they trying to get exemptions from having to be under it?

Why did Congress exempt themselves, their staff, their family and everybody else in government from having to be under Obama Care?

Obamacare: Top 10 Reasons It's Wrong for America

RealClearPolitics - What Else Is Wrong With ObamaCare?

[COLOR="DarkRed"]What Else Is Wrong with Obamacare? It's not just the mandate.[/COLOR]

Eddie

This statement alone speaks volumes, wake up people, what the government is doing to us is unholy
 
   / What is your "Debt Free Date" #79  
....If you are 66 and retired, you are already in the socialized medicine system, and your government provided health insurance program writes a blank check for any treatment a doctor thinks necessary...

The reality is not quite what you think.

I was forced into Medicare in 2010. That year the amount Medicare paid for anything was exactly $0.00. OK, I was forced in in August and it didn't have a whole year. I did pay $200 per month to the government for this wonderful program -- $1000 total for the last 5 months of the year.

In 2011, I paid $2400 into Medicare, and again the program paid $0.00. I only had 2 Dr. visits in 2011, one when of something got in my eye and turned into an eye infection, and a second one for some kind of illness last October. Both bills were declined by Medicare because my deductible had not been met.

Now tell me again how I am benefiting from this wonderful program which has cost me $3400 and paid out nothing.

Maybe I should be thankful, since they haven't had the chance to deny anything to me so far.

Right now I am hoping for a Dr. to set up what is anathema to the socialists. A private practice in my community where I can pay a fixed annual fee of $1500 to $3000 for all the primary health care I need during a year. And where he will go to bat for me against medicare when they deny a treatment.

I would gladly pay for that out of my own pocket.
 
   / What is your "Debt Free Date" #80  
What makes you think that when everyone has government mandated health insurance, that there will be more doctors, staff and locations for everyone to go and get medical treatment?

Where will the money come for to pay for all the additional doctors, staff and hospitals that it will take to take care of all those who where not gettng medical treatment before?

Lawsuits and federal regulations are the biggest expense of medical treatment. Obama Care makes it easier to sue and increased the government regulations. It will make it harder and more expensive to get treatment.

It comes as a surprise to many people that the regulating agency for medical care in the USA is not a government agency. The American Medical Association regulates medical care. The AMA is run by physicians for the benefit of physicians. What you see is the result of 100 years of letting the union run the industry. There is no doubt that opening a couple dozen more medical schools would improve competition in the medical industry, but the AMA won't allow it. We're meeting some of the demand by importing docs from other countries. You are right, American medical schools need to double the number of MDs they produce, but arguing we should continue to deny medical care to millions of Americans because the union won't let us is nonsens.

Medicines are tightly regulated by the FDA, and there is a good argument for loosening the restrictions on drug testing, but that has nothing to do with Obamacare.

Malpractice suits are a real problem and malpractice insurance is a huge expense, many times because the AMA union refuses to discipline incompetent or negligent physicians. For instance, I know of one obstetrician who finally got run out of the country. Among other things, he let labor go on for seven hours when the fetal monitor clearly showed the fetus was in distress, resulting in a brain damaged baby that will need nursing care for the rest of its life, maybe 50 years. Yeah, that was a really big malpractice suit, but they let him keep right on practicing, so his next trick was to cauterize a woman's ureters during a tubal ligation, which cost her both kidneys. By the time she found a transplant kidney she had lost years of her life. Malpractice insurance paid for that too. The State Medical Examiner revoked his right to practice medicine in Oregon, but the AMA left his license intact, so he moved to Australia where he killed a couple more people. The Aussies threw him in jail.

If you are going to limit malpractice awards, you have to figure out how to care for the people who have had their lives ruined by incompetent doctors. If you take it out of private enterprise your only other option is to socialize malpractice care. Or you could lay some serious sanctions on the AMA and make them do their job. Did you know pediatricians kill more children under the age of 5 every year than all gun fatalities in the USA?

If this is good for the country, why wont Obama run on it as an achievement?

Obama doesn't have to run at all for several months yet. We're eleven months out from the election.

If this is good for employees, why are they trying to get exemptions from having to be under it?

Why did Congress exempt themselves, their staff, their family and everybody else in government from having to be under Obama Care?

Because Congress has deluxe lifetime health care paid for by the taxpayer, and didn't think there was any reason to subject themselves to the free market.


I took a look at your first link, and it was just a mix of whining and distortion. Yes, health insurance companies will have to meet federal guidelines. One of those guidelines that they will have to rake off no more than 25% of premiums, instead of the 40% they were pocketing before Obamacare. It's no wonder they are whining. Out of $2.3 Trillion a year in health care costs, 55% is covered by private insurance, and the 15% that they have to quit skimming amounts to about $190 billion a year. If you were losing a scam like that, you would be whining too, but don't waste a lot of effort on sympathy. They don't need it.

As for putting insurance companies out of business, I think only Vermont has decided to apply for waivers to set up a government run single payer system.

The whole US medical establishment needs to be dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up, but you can see the amount of lobbying that resulted from something as simple as requiring all Americans to have medical insurance.
 
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