What is a test for Steering rams mid seal failure?

[CHARLES W FLORENCE]

Thanks , I will probably have to take it somewhere. I have hoped to avoid that as it is quite expensive and I like to try and solve problems myself. I am puzzled what could be holding the screen in .It will move about one half inches as it would come out but stops. I have twisted it and pulled on it but it will not give way. I put vise grips on it and used a large screw driver to prise it out until I was afraid I might break it. I can twist it and it will let me do that . It seems that there is a rubber seal on the end.I can move it about an eight of an inch either way , but no more. unfortunately John Deere does not offer any tech support. Thanks for you help. I appreciate it. Charles W. Florence

 

[rScotty]

This would be a good time to get a parts book and a shop manual. I often look in the parts to get an idea of how things are put together.

That cleanable screen filter can clog and when it does it causes the exact problem you describe. The inside of the screen that you can see may look clean but the outside still be covered with crud. Especially if there was ever any water in the hydraulic fluid...you would know that because water makes hydraulic fluid look like dirty chocolate milk.

You might go down to the JD dealer and get a replacement screen for your 5205. They don't cost much and looking at it might give a clue. It usually comes with an O ring at the far end and a gasket for the cover.

I've repaired that filter when people tore it on other tractors - not JDs - using 200 mesh stainless steel screen which our hardware store sells by the inch. 200 mesh is about 75 micron and stops a 0.003" diameter particle.
rScotty

 

[CHARLES W FLORENCE]

This would be a good time to get a parts book and a shop manual. I often look in the parts to get an idea of how things are put together.

That cleanable screen filter can clog and when it does it causes the exact problem you describe. The inside of the screen that you can see may look clean but the outside still be covered with crud. Especially if there was ever any water in the hydraulic fluid...you would know that because water makes hydraulic fluid look like dirty chocolate milk.

You might go down to the JD dealer and get a replacement screen for your 5205. They don't cost much and looking at it might give a clue. It usually comes with an O ring at the far end and a gasket for the cover.

I've repaired that filter when people tore it on other tractors - not JDs - using 200 mesh stainless steel screen which our hardware store sells by the inch. 200 mesh is about 75 micron and stops a 0.003" diameter particle.
rScotty

Thank you for your response. I appreciate it. I will defiantly follow your advice . I hope I can get the screen out. I cannot understand what might be holding it. I wish I could get some idea of what will happen if I keep pulling on it. Could the end break off? This is really a worry . I have seen post of people that have had the same problem , but there was nothing posted about the outcome. any thoughts you have on this I would appreciate. Thanks Charles W. Florence

 

[rScotty]

Thank you for your response. I appreciate it. I will defiantly follow your advice . I hope I can get the screen out. I cannot understand what might be holding it. I wish I could get some idea of what will happen if I keep pulling on it. Could the end break off? This is really a worry . I have seen post of people that have had the same problem , but there was nothing posted about the outcome. any thoughts you have on this I would appreciate. Thanks Charles W. Florence

Well, OK. I guess I have to confess.... I ruined one of those filters on our old (1985) 33 hp Yanmar tractor by being hamfisted about taking it out and putting it back in. Which is why I was forced to learn about them....

I suspect that there are all kinds of shapes of those filters & most tractors have one. We need to find a photo of what that part looks like for your JD 5205. Maybe someone here can help. If I had known what mine looked like I wouldn't have ruined it.
I'll look through my tractor library to see if there are any hints.

Onl most tractors that cleanable crud filter is shaped to stay down into the bottom of the trans/hyd sump. One end of the filter is blocked, and the other end has an opening in the end which feeds trans/hydraulic oil to the suction line - which then goes to the spin-on hydraulic fine filter - from there the fluid goes into the high $$ hydraulic pump. You want the fluid to be clean and plentiful when it enters the hydraulic pump.

Lets look for an example filter, but you might as well buy one if it is cheap enough. That one could be jammed in place with crud.
rScotty

 

[hube2]

... We need to find a photo of what that part looks like for your JD 5205...

Found this thread on another site. There are images for the screen on this tractor in it. Person there was having same issue, unfortunately no resolution was posted.

Changing transmission/hydraulic fluid on JD 5205

www.greentractortalk.com

 

[rScotty]

OK. Found a picture. The keyword turned out to be: STRAINER FILTER for JD5205.
Courtesy of Weingartz.com who has a terrific JD parts site.

Sure enough, it looks just as expected. Early strainers were stainless screen on a stainless frame, now plastic screen on a nylon frame. I guess that's either called
"high tech" or "progress" in tractor adv.-speak.

If I'm reading the transmission casting illus. correctly, your strainer access is down low & just forward of the left hand rear axle.

You can see how the strainer slides in. If all is right, it should move easily.
What is not shown in this illustration is that far end is a pretty tight fit into a locating hole in the transmission case casting. The designer doesn't want to give more than 0.003" clearance, because that's the size particle it is supposed to filter.

Because of that tight fit, a problem can happen if crud is in that blind locating hole, and/or the mechanic misses getting it completely down into that locating hole. If the filter is not completely inserted, when he tightens down the mounting screws (#4) the tube is squashed out of shape. The mechanic knows something isn't right, but it is apparently working and not leaking so he leaves it. Actually he knows more than that, but I'll leave that for now. But YOU know what happened when you go to pull the darn thing out and it doesn't want to slide out. Or comes only part way.

NOTE THAT THIS MAY NOT BE YOUR STEERING PROBLEM.
But anytime that hydraulic symptoms include any symptom that could be due to low flow, you always start with the cleanable strainer and work forward.
The next thing after getting the cleanable strainer right is to make sure you do not have any suction leaks, flattened pipe, or saturated spin on filter between where I've written "oil tube should fit into this hole, and the input to the hydraulic pump up on the engine.

Only after we have this suction side fluid feed system to the hydraulic pump all in good shape do we go after seals in the hydrostatic steering assembly.

rScotty

 

[dodge man]

That’s very similar to my setup. I changed my fluid and filter at 50 hours and 200 hours and cleaned the screen on mine. It slide our easily. I could see if it was gunked up not coming loose.

 

[rScotty]

That’s very similar to my setup. I changed my fluid and filter at 50 hours and 200 hours and cleaned the screen on mine. It slide our easily. I could see if it was gunked up not coming loose.

Right, and I was trying to thing of what I would do it it was really stuck. Maybe try to find a big bolt and maybe even start with a tap and thread it into the plastic of the near end so I could use a small hand impact puller....

Yes, I think that is what I might do. But would have to be careful that the bolt threads didn't dig into the case.

Or I might just grab as much as I could with some thin duckbill pliers - I have a set with very thin "bills" and try to twist it. That might break it, and then have to go after the parts the hard way.

Frankly I don't like either of my ideas. Anyone got a better one?

rScotty

 

[hube2]

I would not have thought about tapping a bolt into it to use some type of puller even though own a puller that could do it. But I think that is a good idea.

I don't know if I have a better idea, just what I would probably think to do not knowing about the puller idea before I tore the transmission apart.

I am assuming that the screen that is stuck is the old type made out of metal and not the new plastic type. Assuming this because if it was plastic then it would probably would bend back and come out if it got squashed as noted in the explanation of what went wrong.

Also assuming that it is bent just inside at the near end because the OP says he can only move it a fraction of an inch.

First I would order a new screen.

I would do my best to guess where/what part of the screen was hitting.

Use a hammer and some type of tool or something? Not sure what but something flat that would not cut the metal. Bend the near side of the filter in and slowly work it out and beat it in some more as I did to allow it to be removed.

You'd need to be really careful not to allow it to slip inside once the near end was smaller cuz then you'd be screwed.

Ugly way to get it out but better than opening things up to get at it from the inside.

You might also be able to squash it in using pliers or a vice grip just enough to get it to release.

 

[CHARLES W FLORENCE]

Well, OK. I guess I have to confess.... I ruined one of those filters on our old (1985) 33 hp Yanmar tractor by being hamfisted about taking it out and putting it back in. Which is why I was forced to learn about them....

I suspect that there are all kinds of shapes of those filters & most tractors have one. We need to find a photo of what that part looks like for your JD 5205. Maybe someone here can help. If I had known what mine looked like I wouldn't have ruined it.
I'll look through my tractor library to see if there are any hints.

Onl most tractors that cleanable crud filter is shaped to stay down into the bottom of the trans/hyd sump. One end of the filter is blocked, and the other end has an opening in the end which feeds trans/hydraulic oil to the suction line - which then goes to the spin-on hydraulic fine filter - from there the fluid goes into the high $$ hydraulic pump. You want the fluid to be clean and plentiful when it enters the hydraulic pump.

Lets look for an example filter, but you might as well buy one if it is cheap enough. That one could be jammed in place with crud.
rScotty

Thanks . Your explanation sounds like its on the right track. I have a photo of the filter and it appears to be open on both ends. If the crud is holding it because it is stuck I might try something, maybe a liquid , to break it free. If it is open on the far end, and I believe it is, I might try some rod with a flat end to get behind it. I don't think there is any other way that I can think of .Please let me know if you have any thoughts on this. Thanks again for your help. I appreciate it. Charles W Florence