What Horsepower/what tractor?

handcuff · Jun 11, 2018

Hey guys,
I have been working with a Kubota B2400 for the last several years, and am finally biting the bullet to step up to a new tractor. I have (had?) selected the new Kioti DK4210se hydrostatic, with an expectation to receive it within the next week or two. The dealer has ordered it and says that he is waiting on confirmation that it has been shipped.

Now my question/problem: I just read the specs (didn't have them available when I made the order) and realized that the PTO HP is less than what I expected. On Kubota, it seems like the hydrostatic trans 'steals' about 5HP from total (thus a 39hp tractor is reduced to ~34HP @ PTO). I assumed that was true of the Kioti also, but it doesn't play out that way -

It looks like the Kioti 42 has about 30HP @ PTO. That was a bit of a disappointment for me, but I don't know if it *should* be...just that I expected it to be in the ~35-37 realm and it ends up being 30. My previous tractor was 18hp to the PTO, and had a bit of a challenge running a 5 ft bush hog. It ran a 4.5 ft tiller and my auger without issue. My new tractor is mostly to get a cab (terrible allergies) and to get more lift capacity (old tractor only had ~800#'s, new one will have ~2,700).

So my question: Now that I've seen this, I question if I should go to the next step up on HP - go for the 4710 (or even the 5210) since the physical size is the same. I don't know if it is 'worth it' to step up in HP, given that the 18HP was doing almost everything I needed. Stepping up an additional 12 HP is a jump of an additional 67%, so my assumption is that it should do everything - but I always hear 'get more than what you expect to need.' Also, I don't know if going to the next size up would cost additional time - they haven't informed him that it has shipped yet, but I don't want to go to the back of the line.

For context, I have 7.5 acres of land that I take care of. 2 acres remain wooded with trails, and 5.5 acres of cleared/used land. I don't have animals except chickens, dogs and my kids. =) I'm in KY where we get some snowfall, but not enough to justify getting a snow-blower. Mostly, I garden, move the chicken coop around, and do a lot of firewood (we heat with it almost exclusively). I'll start mowing the back pasture with the tractor rather than my ZTR Scag once I have it, due to allergies. Front pasture will continue to be mowed with the Scag, because it does a great job of that.

So what are your thoughts? Is 30HP sufficient? Should I be looking at more? I don't know what the cost difference is, but it looks like it's about $1500/jump.
I got the DK because it was large enough for a non-cramped cab, but small enough to still be somewhat nimble on my land. The NX series seemed too large of a footprint; the CK got feedback of 'cramped cab' on several threads.

Thanks for any advice, in advance.
-Scott

majorwager · Jun 11, 2018

Handcuff,
Very easy to spend another's money. The 30 PTO hp is likely adequate, but I am a proponent of greater abilities if funds allow. Did you look at the Yanmar YT series?

I believe that the additional hp places less strain upon the drivetrain when approaching the upper limits of the implement requirements. Does the dealer have a tractor that you can demo at your home for a weekend.? That might provide more insight as you make your decision. Any contemplated options are less expensive prior to purchase than subsequently. So loaded tires, SSQA (if optional), additional rear hydraulic remote, R wiper (if cab), tire type, wheel weights, should be considered. Ask dealer for complete options list. As an aside, you would be surprised how quickly one adapts to what is perceived to be a tractor TOO LARGE. Yet one size does NOT fit all, and small compacts have their niche as well.

A specific poster is obsessed (overbearing) w/ tractor weight, excel spreadsheets and any hillside operation. Take ALL advice w/ the proverbial grain of salt. A specific tractor purchasing guide is the ultimate cure for insomnia. The tractor cost per pound is pure twilight zone.

CMV · Jun 11, 2018

You buying larger implements or staying with the 5' you have?

I think it's close to same from Kioti or Kubota. Just Kubota does a better job of advertising specs more clearly and lists gross and net HP where Kioti specs are gross. So when you subtract PTO HP from Kioti gross and Kubota net it looks like Kioti loses more. Issue is the Kioti advertising a "42HP tractor" that Kubota would call a "39HP tractor" - or similar #s. At least that was impression I walked away with after much comparing between the two oranges.

L4701HST for example is -10.5HP from engine gross to PTO. My NX is -11HP from engine gross to PTO.

Anyway, at 33.9 PTO HP, I don't feel like I'm running low on HP running 6' bush hog or 6/ rotary tiller. I don't have anything more demanding for the PTO. Going up hill in mid range bush hogging and it just goes without dropping RPM a noticeable amount.

handcuff · Jun 11, 2018

@MajorWager - Thank you for the feedback! I agree with the 'get as much as you can afford' and while I don't have much concern for size (my property is fairly open) I want to be able to park under my awning so I didn't go with the next size up (NX45). The difference in those two inches means parking under an awning vs parking outdoors. However, most importantly - I want to be able to do what I need to do with my tractor and it's power. I just don't know if I'm realistically evaluating my needs or simply wanting the next larger tractor.

@CMV - Very helpful information, so thank you! I had considered calling my dealer and asking for pricing on the next step up - was concerned that:
+ the stutter-step would cause angst for my dealer - given that he has already ordered the first tractor,
+ the change in order would cost additional time (I've been without a tractor now for two weeks, and work is backing up)
+ the additional financial cost (unknown, but guessing at ~$1,500) may not be worth it for the work I need to do.

Trying to balance and stay grounded rather than get caught up in new/shiny/powerful toys.

Thomas · Jun 11, 2018

Not less than 30hp at PTO,maybe little more horse power if HST.

3gunr · Jun 11, 2018

My mahindra 2538 has 32 pto hp,It runs a 6 ft cutter and 6 ft tiller with ease.I spent about 15 hrs last weekend mowing 3 to 5 ft brush and grass and never bogged down once.I have a mahindra 2810 with around 23 pto hp and it runs 5 ft implements with no trouble. Enjoy your new tractor.

cphilip · Jun 11, 2018

I think PTO HP is the most lied about spec on tractors...

I run 5 foot stuff on 21.7 HP and does an adequate job. Your going to likely be able to run larger than you have now. Probably fine with 6 foot stuff. You might have to slow down in real heavy big stuff sometimes. Maybe not.

ksbrdmkr · Jun 12, 2018

Rule of thumb on brush mowers is to have 5HP per foot of mower, 15 foot bat wing at least a 75 HP tractor, if you want to mow fast 5mph+ you need more HP.

CMV · Jun 12, 2018

My little LS with 18.5hp @PTO ran a 5' bush hog just fine. Never bogged it down. That rule of thumb - although I've read it here multiple times - just doesn't seem accurate. Or maybe only if you're talking about the heaviest 3"+ capacity cutters. A lighter 1-2" capacity bush hog? I don't think you need nearly that much.

Anyway....I think you're focusing on wrong spec. Look way down that column near the bottom....you'll see you need >5' to cover the tracks, so you'll want 6'. Any new major brand tractor is going to be capable of covering its tracks. Regardless of what you could theoretically run or some rule of thumb tells you, I'd look at it like this: I need 6' to cover tracks (because odd in between size isn't going to be common) and price jump from a 6' to 7' is extremely high compared to 4-5', 5-6'. Plus > 6' you're getting really long overall from bucket lip to tailwheel so even if you could run a 7' you might not want to.