what happened?

[Soundguy]

yes.. we have inspectors.. and while they don't look at our labor on change orders, it's only because change orders are a negotiated contract based onunit prices.. and it's paid on in place measured up amounts ( as built )

however.. there is an overtime issue with the inspectors. we have to pay their overtime charges ( comes out of our contract ).. if work is denied, and has to be re-inspected....

It's a game. we've learned to play it. If the county wants some more hours for their inspectors that week ( someone didn't make enough time..e tc.. ) they will check our job.. fail something.. have us redo it to the exact same spec.. then pass it it has been to the point that on unoficial ahem.. meetings.. we just ask them what hours they had in mind and tell them that if the work really passes muster.. don't fail it and make us waste material and time... just send us the bill... sad but true.... ironically.. it's the govt that is crooked.. not us...

been that way for a while I suspect...

i'm the civeng at the co, and when talking to the county project manager.. I simply go over our draw request line by line ont he phone or email before I send it, and simply just ask what items they feel like letting me bill.. and i'm just happy if I'm 100% at the end of the job..

soundguy

 

[RobertBrown]

I'm from the government. I'm here to help you.


I loved to use that as my opening line when I visited a highway construction contractor's office to start an audit of his claimed time & materials cost.

(Contract Change Orders are often performed at standard published hourly rates that the contractor agreed to when he bid the overall project).

But really the contractors who usually won bids did an excellent job of matching their claimed hours to the State's jobsite inspector records so I rarely found a variance. Subcontractors doing their first public works project however ... They learned to play straight real quick, because we took any variance out of the payment to the prime contractor and let him go after his sub.

Chris, do those auditors ever come through there?

No wonder California's broke.......

 

[California]

No wonder California's broke.......

How do you figure?

 

[California]

there is an overtime issue with the inspectors. we have to pay their overtime charges ( comes out of our contract ).. if work is denied, and has to be re-inspected

soundguy

I'm glad we don't make the contractor pay for jobsite inspection overtime here. It sounds like that Florida procedure is a licence for extortion like some third-world country's police. Government shouldn't work like that.

I wore various hats over the years. One was doing those IRS-like random financial audits. We felt these spot-checks kept everyone honest on what they invoiced. Another hat was 'management review' of the State's internal operations, intended to keep the state forces honest by verifying that there were procedures to bring a problem to the attention of top management. Your example where the jobsite inspector can create his own overtime was the sort of thing where we would recommend a policy change, to make it impossible. (ie pay overtime out of the project budget instead of billing it to the contractor.)

California government is remarkably clean. We occasionally wrote up and fired a rogue employee, but the management procedures were sufficient that the idiot came to somebody's attention and got dealt with pretty quickly. Our state legislature, on the other hand ... is the real problem. "The finest representatives that money can buy", said a prior legislative leader. They have a history of passing spending bills without any link to some revenue to pay for it. After the dot-com bubble ended, State revenue fell but the spending had been locked in place by formulas. With the inevitable result, as you probably see in the news.

 

[deepNdirt]

Periodically but not all the time I am seeing this same issue, although can be entertaining, like with the Ad that is at the header of when the page opens, there is a computer monster stating
"No he will not go any faster"

 

[careyo63]

How do you figure?

Governor: Calif. facing huge cuts with $16 billion shortfall

 

[California]

Governor: Calif. facing huge cuts with $16 billion shortfall

Yep. This governor (Brown) is the first to even try to resolve the mess.

But as I said, prior (and present) legislatures locked-in mandated programs that ignore the revenue needed to pay for the programs. For example they passed legislation to cap county property taxes combined with a promise to pay for local elementary education out of state income tax revenue. After the dotcom bust, the state revenue declined but the state's obligation to the counties continues.

The structural problems aren't solved yet. The governor doesn't have the power to overturn legislation, only propose solutions. And the present legislature ignores him.

The drama continues.

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. it's our county policy... sanctioned extortion.

I know, way back.. it probably started as an honest practice. lots of contractors not doing up to spec work, constant re-inspections.. thus overtime.. thus extra bill to taxpayers.. now however.. it's a way to round out the inspectors paycheck.. as construction is in a slump.. many times there are simply not enough jobs on the books to keep all the inspectors at 40 hours.. the answer? fail work, require reinspection.. bill the contractor..

It happens on residential stuff too... if you are having a house built.. inspector comes out.. he fails it, and you have to pay a 25$ fee for a reinspection.

the reasons for failing can be excessively mundane.

permit holder height out of spec. IE.. the white 'dry' box' holding the permits was not exactly 4' off the ground.. etc.

yep... 25$ reinspection after failing.

i've even seen one where i THINK an inspector changed soemthing to fail it.. thoug we could not prove it.

final inspection on a house.. the lil backflow preventers were on the external faucets... inspector came over.. failed it.. needed a reinspection.. one was missing... hmm..


soundguy

I'm glad we don't make the contractor pay for jobsite inspection overtime here. It sounds like that Florida procedure is a licence for extortion like some third-world country's police. Government shouldn't work like that.

I wore various hats over the years. One was doing those IRS-like random financial audits. We felt these spot-checks kept everyone honest on what they invoiced. Another hat was 'management review' of the State's internal operations, intended to keep the state forces honest by verifying that there were procedures to bring a problem to the attention of top management. Your example where the jobsite inspector can create his own overtime was the sort of thing where we would recommend a policy change, to make it impossible. (ie pay overtime out of the project budget instead of billing it to the contractor.)

California government is remarkably clean. We occasionally wrote up and fired a rogue employee, but the management procedures were sufficient that the idiot came to somebody's attention and got dealt with pretty quickly. Our state legislature, on the other hand ... is the real problem. "The finest representatives that money can buy", said a prior legislative leader. They have a history of passing spending bills without any link to some revenue to pay for it. After the dot-com bubble ended, State revenue fell but the spending had been locked in place by formulas. With the inevitable result, as you probably see in the news.

 

[clemsonfor]

Do they charge more than the $25 fee like 25 plus the hours out there? Seems like just charging 25 would loose money unless its for "proving" to the tax payers that all the inspectors are "neccissary"? What i mean is that a government employee my hourly rate that i earn is around $29/hr. But my evvective rate or the cost to employ me is near $70/hour. So my point is if i charge something like a $25 fee and it takes me an hour and some fuel to get the job done its a loss before i even leave the office. All the costs associated with my job cost $70/hour. So for us to bill anything we are $70/hr. But im in timber and dont work for outside , only for other government agencies.

 

[Soundguy]

2 differences..

1, I'm in florida... economy and pay is so bad here that 29/70$ an hour is a far cray from what any of us are making / costing.

also.. the 25$ fee is the reinspection fee.. usually involves the inspector driving to the jobsite, while on rounds to other sites, thus cost of transportation is shared with other sites... walking over to the permit box and putting his initials on the paper, after a quick glance at the work. migth be ont he jobsite 5 minutes if they are slow.

the regular cost of the inspections and whatnot are built into the building permit prices.. which can run into the thousands, depending upon the project.

i put an 'ag' well on my farm.. could have done it permitless , legally, and did a shallow water one.. small tank, and 2 or 3" casing ( 2" = jet pump )... however by permitting it , and going 4" casing, normal depth, I can convert it to a residential well if I ever decide to move out to my farm property. permit to get the short power pole and for the well was about 700$ (permit fee only ).. actual electrical contractor charged me abount another 280$ for the pole... etc.. power company shafted me hard... they told me where the access would be for the power line, then wanted me to put the well in first before they sunk the poles to get over to it... after I have the well in, they changed their minds and wanted to access fromt he opposite side of the property I had the option of expensive burried cable running across farm property, and actually onto the neighbors property as the power poles would lie on his side.. or I had to pay a special fee to get wrong side access.... thousands of bucks they soaked me for... when i complained that I was told which side based on the tag on one of the poles across the road.. they asked who authorized it.. I gave them a name.. 'oh.. that person no longer works here'