Dealer What do you think is a fair profit for dealers.

   / What do you think is a fair profit for dealers. #11  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( First, I would not pay as much for a Kioti as I paid for a Kubota because the Kubota is a much better known brand (at least in East Texas) and I expect the resale value to be higher.

"Price is never a valid objection" was what Mr. Koch taught me when I took the Dale Carnegie Sales Course in 1974. He is right.

If price was a valid objection tell me why people are still buying Mercedes automobiles? After all, the cheapest Toyota or Chevy made will go everywhere a Mercedes will go. It must be that they perceive the Mercedes to be worth the $$$ paid for some reason.

As a salesman when I heard a customer say "The price is too high" I realized that what he was really saying was "I am not convinced that your product is worth the price you are asking. Tell me why your product is worth the price you are asking?".

I did not compare prices to other brands since I didn't consider other brands but you should be able to compare list price to list price by doing some research. But be sure you are comparing truly comparable models as far as features, HP, etc.

I supect you may have to undercut the big 3's prices for a while until Kioti becomes a better known brand. Whether you can do that and stay in business is a question only you can answer.

You need to maintain enough of a margin so that you can provide service after the sale. Reading this forum it is obvious to me that a large number of members consider the dealer to be more important than the brand. Obviously, service after the sale costs you money for labor, parts that you might provide that warranty does not cover, and anything else that will make folks see that you are willing to go above and beyond what other dealers in the area will do.

I want my dealer to make a reasonable profit so he will be in business next year in case I have a warranty issue and in 5 years so I can get parts and service.

An example of the kind of treatment I get from my Kubota dealer: I went in about 4 days after I bought the tractor to pick up a spinner knob. They were in a box on the counter and cost $6.95. I laid it up on the parts counter and the parts man (who is part owner of the dealership) pushed it back across the counter and said "Here, take it as our way of saying thanks for buying a tratctor from us". That $6.95 bought him a lot of loyalty from me. He'll sell me a lot more in the future than that knob cost him. In fact, I bought a $750 rotary cutter from them a couple of weeks later.

Never forget what an old friend of mine taught me when I was in the used car business: "You can shear a sheep once a year, but if you ever skin him it is all over". I don't mind being sheared I just don't want to be skinned.

Bill Tolle )</font>

I quoted this response because I think it needs to be reread. Makes A LOT of sense to me.
THE ONLY THING that I disagree with is the issue of resale. I NEVER THINK ABOUT IT. That's just me.

Both BILL and BOB have given excellent responses and I agree with the both of them in their view on this matter as mine is the same. G
 
   / What do you think is a fair profit for dealers. #12  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Vince, just curious, but if the Big 3 are selling near full list, are the Kioti tractors less expensive because the Kioti dealers are discounting deeper, or because the list prices are lower? )</font>

I don't know what the list price of my DK was, but I can give you an idea of the prices I got on the 35 HP tractors (tractor only)I looked at just over 3 years ago .
I'm going by memery but this is pretty close to the prices I received.
JD 4400 hst w/r-4"s $18,500
JD 4400 power shift w/R-4's $17,300, (grill guard,remote hydraulics, mid PTO not included in price)

Kubota 3410 FST (sycro-shuttle transmission) w/R-1's $14,600
1 set of rear remotes installed add $800
R-4 tires add $600
Total-$16,000

Kioti Dk 35 (sycro-shuttle transmission) R-4's, grill quard, rear work light, mid PTO, draft control, extendable lower link arms, 1 set of rear remotes
$12,995
The price differances where to much for me to ignore, and many of the features on the Kioti DK were not included in the prices on the other 2 machines .
 
   / What do you think is a fair profit for dealers. #13  
Mr. Sweet. I'd first like to say that I was NEVER able to find a Kubota, similarly equipped that was equal to or less than the Kioti CK20 that I bought.
I suspect that if you were to tell these customers that included in the Kioti price they are getting the hydraulic valve body and joystick, cruise control etc., that they may see the price is NOT the same. Kubota charges extra for industrial tires, joystick and valve and other features that are included on Kioti.
I'd pin them down as to exactly what they were quoted, what was included as long as you can do it in a nice way.
I see no reason that you should make any less than $1500-$2000 gross profit on the sale. After all, you have to put them together, place a battery, and generally prep them and probably deliver. Any less and you probably may as well take down your shingle. I also disagree wholeheartedly with Kioti's policy of not posting list prices. Either the dealers or Kioti should make them available so that people can do some real comparison and then see whether they're getting a discount. I think you'd be able to sell more tractors. I've been discussing this with people in Korea, and I hope they will change the policy. John
EDIT: I'd like to add that even if I had gotten a closer price for the Kubota, I would have bought the CK20 because I like the extra weight and the way the tractor is built better than the Kubota which is what I had thought I would end up with. Side by side I could see a major difference in the two.
 
   / What do you think is a fair profit for dealers. #14  
"I also disagree wholeheartedly with Kioti's policy of not posting list prices"



I agree!!

RedDog
 
   / What do you think is a fair profit for dealers. #15  
<font color="red"> "I also disagree wholeheartedly with Kioti's policy of not posting list prices"
</font>

Unfortunately, Kioti is not the only one guilty of this. I think generally the tractor manufactures are trying to protect dealer territories much to the detriment of their brands. Kubota is very strict about their rules and CNH has also cracked down on its dealers. On the surface it looks like consumers are losing out, but I think that in areas where a manufacturer has a substandard dealer then the brand is hurt more than the consumer. Its a shame, but it appears that the manufacturers are trying to live in an age that doesn't seem to include the information sharing of the internet. Kioti is still building its brand, I think giving dealers the ability to promote their product is very reasonable.
 
   / What do you think is a fair profit for dealers. #16  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Unfortunately, Kioti is not the only one guilty of this. I think generally the tractor manufactures are trying to protect dealer territories much to the detriment of their brands. Kubota is very strict about their rules and CNH has also cracked down on its dealers. )</font>

At least with Kubota and NH the dealer or the website can show list prices. Kioti will not even do that /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Kioti is still building its brand, I think giving dealers the ability to promote their product is very reasonable. )</font>
I agree !!
 
   / What do you think is a fair profit for dealers. #17  
The DK65 has awesome specs. If my "local" (not really very close) dealer would have wanted to sell me a DK65 when I was shopping, he could have. I was impressed with the tractor, but very unimpressed with the dealer and his deal. Maybe next time there will be more Kioti dealers in my area. It is obviously a tough market to crack. As I mentioned before, there were two Kioti dealers that were actually close to me, but they went under. That should not be taken as a knock on Kioti, but how much the big three can squeeze a market to keep competitors out.

Next time out, I'm going to compare the DK65, the M series Kubota, the 5XXX series JD, and the comparable NH. Then, see who wants my money the most! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / What do you think is a fair profit for dealers. #18  
Adding extra work lights to a tractor is one of the popular add-ons discussed here on TBN....which brings up alternator output.

On a different brand, I've seen 'standard equipment' alternators as low as 14.5 Amps with a 'cost added' upgrade alternator that outputs 40 Amps.

Kioti uses a 50 Amp alternator as 'standard equipment'.

I'll agree, that I see, more standard features built into Kioti's that are 'cost added' options elsewhere.

Don
 
   / What do you think is a fair profit for dealers. #19  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I would like to poll the members of TBN to ask: What would be a fair profit for a dealer to make on a new Kioti Tractor w/ Loader (value $15,000). Yes, I am a dealer. )</font>

The "value $15,000" is quite ambiguous, as there are different types of values. There is the actual sales price value, and a MSRP value. I don't have any idea what the actual MSRP of the Kioti is, but the MSRP of those that post their prices, like John Deere, sell for from 10-25% less than their MSRP; with apparently a lot of them in the 15-20% range. If your tractor has an MSRP of $15,000 you should be selling it for $11,250 to $13,500.

If you are attempting to sell for list price, and the Kubota dealer is selling from 10-25% less than list then you are losing a lot of customers, and will rightly continue to lose a lot of customers.

You will also need to decide if you are going to have a goal of selling one tractor and making a lot of money from that one unit, or if you are willing to deal in more volume and sell more tractors, but make less on each one.

Kioti dealers cannot compete by being comparable to the big three in quality and price, they have to exceed the big three in quality and price. The reason is that the big three have a long established history and dealer network. Kioti is a fairly new business, and its dealer network isn't well established.

There is no real set dollar amount that we could tell a dealer they need to make on each tractor. Two dealers could sell the same tractor for the same price and one make a greater profit than the other due to overhead. The amount of overhead on each machine is also impacted greatly by the number of units that are sold by the dealer. The greater the number of units, the lower the overhead per unit.

One thing is definite, if you are trying to sell units over the net, which you are, then you need to beat the other guys prices by enough so that the people are willing to pay the extra for shipping, and pay for the uncertainty that goes with having the units shipped.

If I can get a DK45 with loader in central Kentucky for $19,400 and get free delivery anywhere in the state, then your price is going to have to be enough cheaper to get the unit delivered to me and pay for the extra driving distance I am going to have to do to deal with your business.
 
   / What do you think is a fair profit for dealers. #20  
This is an interesting thread. I have been a KIOTI and Long/Farmtrac dealer now for about a year. I have found this business to be extremely competitive, but am learning the game quickly. Frankly if it were not for our very successful Chinese tractor business we would not have survived.
I think the Koreans in general have lost some of their "2nd tier" price advantage, I also think the majors are rolling up thier sleeves for a good fight and have come up with low cost models to close the gap.

That said, the biggest problem, as has been pointed out already here, is that the typical consumer does not compare apple and apple.

I have had the same "I can get a Kubota for that" comment, and when persued, in one case, found the guy was quoting a an ad he saw that turned out to be a 2wd. Kioti no longer makes a 2wd model. I think Kubota has increased HP ratings on some smaller framed tractors. Shrewd Move.

I think to be competitive in internet sales, you must pay cash for your tractors, get the extra 6% or sell them within 30 days, otherwise you end up working for the floor plan company. There is always someone who can survive (for now) on a little less profit.

I personally think KITOI is world class, second to none. We just got our first CK25 in, what a machine! suspension seat, tilt steering, releasing lift arm ends, crank leveling of the lift, integrated loader valve, reclining seat, even a drink holder. Excellent fit and finish, comfortable, well placed controls, etc. But yes it costs more than a B series 'Bota...

We have to hang in there and build the brand...glad I have my Farm Pros and KAMAs to pay the bills in the mean time.
 

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