Scratchnbell
Silver Member
I might pick up a back hoe this weekend and am looking for info.
thanks
Bob
thanks
Bob
what are the disadvantages to a 3 point back hoe?
- Thread starter Scratchnbell
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Bigbear
Silver Member
As I have read and been told the 3 point is not as stable nor strong as the bolt on kind. I do know you can not raise the back of the tractor up and sit it over with a 3 point hoe due to its lack of solid connection to the undercarriage. My 3 point back hoe works great for the needs I have. I like the option of taking it off in a few minutes instead of a few hrs when you need another implement. Good luck on your purchase, the backhoe is a great tool for the small tractors. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
JohnS
Platinum Member
I believe you have a Jinma 254/284. A three point hoe will put more stress on the tractor, mainly through the transmission and bellhousing area. If you are looking at the chinese hoes, which are very powerful for this size tractor, highly recommend a frame mount, and reinforce the frame. A three point will be easier to take on and off, but you will need to be very careful with it. JMHO.
Bob_Skurka
Super Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2003
- Messages
- 7,615
I am a longtime vocal critic of small back hoes in general. And I have a Great Bend unit for a Kubota B2910 (30hp) tractor so I think I have some basis for my opinions.
First, let me state that a 3pt back hoe is going to typically put more stress on the rear of the tractor than a sub-frame mounted back hoe. If you get a BH, get a sub frame mount, you may lose a bit of ground clearance but you won't likely break the rear off your tractor. Also, most of the 3pt mount units I looked at had lower capacities than most of the sub-frame mount units.
Second, let me state that if you have specific needs for a backhoe on a very regualr basis, then a backhoe on the rear of your tractor might make a lot of sense.
However, if you are thinking of doing serious work with a backhoe like digging a new septic field, foundation, etc, then you are probably in way over your head with these little things UNLESS YOU BUY A BIG ONE and put it on a LARGE TRACTOR. So for my opinions, let me state they apply to a typical BH that would mount to a typical tractor of perhaps 35hp or less.
Compared to renting a track hoe for under $200 (36 hour rental including delivery & pick up) Thomas Track Hoe/mini-excavator the back hoe on your tractor will have FAR LESS ability, reach & capacity. Further, it will not work nearly as well in tight spaces as the overall length of a tractor with FEL and BH is going to prevent you from EFFICIENTLY getting into places. I had to dig along the side of my pool last year, on one side of me was the pool, the other side was a wooded hillside. The space between the two is only about 15'. The Kubota B2910 TLB is longer than 15'. Of that 15' that was available, I had to dig out a 4' wide area so there was about 11' available to work in and that included the area where I had to pile up the spoils. I was able to dig a 40' to 45' long trench, 4' to 5' deep, 4' to 5' wide with the track hoe in about 3 hours. My neighbor, who is far more experienced with a TLB showed up the next day to look at the project and estimated that it would have taken 2 to 3 weekends to do the same job with the Kubota/Great Bend combo due to reduced reach, reduced bucket size, having to transport the spoils to another area so I could maneuver the TLB, etc.
I think if you have some real jobs, you MIGHT be better off to line them up, rent a small track hoe, and knock the jobs off in a weekend. You'd likely save yourself $6,000 to $8,000 and save a lot of time.
IF you have a lot of small projects, then a BH on your tractor might make sense. But I could pull some might big stumps very quickly with a rented track hoe, while I read about people taking 2 to 3 hours to pull a modest size stump with a small TLB.
First, let me state that a 3pt back hoe is going to typically put more stress on the rear of the tractor than a sub-frame mounted back hoe. If you get a BH, get a sub frame mount, you may lose a bit of ground clearance but you won't likely break the rear off your tractor. Also, most of the 3pt mount units I looked at had lower capacities than most of the sub-frame mount units.
Second, let me state that if you have specific needs for a backhoe on a very regualr basis, then a backhoe on the rear of your tractor might make a lot of sense.
However, if you are thinking of doing serious work with a backhoe like digging a new septic field, foundation, etc, then you are probably in way over your head with these little things UNLESS YOU BUY A BIG ONE and put it on a LARGE TRACTOR. So for my opinions, let me state they apply to a typical BH that would mount to a typical tractor of perhaps 35hp or less.
Compared to renting a track hoe for under $200 (36 hour rental including delivery & pick up) Thomas Track Hoe/mini-excavator the back hoe on your tractor will have FAR LESS ability, reach & capacity. Further, it will not work nearly as well in tight spaces as the overall length of a tractor with FEL and BH is going to prevent you from EFFICIENTLY getting into places. I had to dig along the side of my pool last year, on one side of me was the pool, the other side was a wooded hillside. The space between the two is only about 15'. The Kubota B2910 TLB is longer than 15'. Of that 15' that was available, I had to dig out a 4' wide area so there was about 11' available to work in and that included the area where I had to pile up the spoils. I was able to dig a 40' to 45' long trench, 4' to 5' deep, 4' to 5' wide with the track hoe in about 3 hours. My neighbor, who is far more experienced with a TLB showed up the next day to look at the project and estimated that it would have taken 2 to 3 weekends to do the same job with the Kubota/Great Bend combo due to reduced reach, reduced bucket size, having to transport the spoils to another area so I could maneuver the TLB, etc.
I think if you have some real jobs, you MIGHT be better off to line them up, rent a small track hoe, and knock the jobs off in a weekend. You'd likely save yourself $6,000 to $8,000 and save a lot of time.
IF you have a lot of small projects, then a BH on your tractor might make sense. But I could pull some might big stumps very quickly with a rented track hoe, while I read about people taking 2 to 3 hours to pull a modest size stump with a small TLB.
mark1
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2004
- Messages
- 351
- Location
- Spencerport,NY
- Tractor
- Jinma 284,Jd GT235,345,Trac-Vac1080
Most of these backhoes are fine depending on what you plan to do with them.Get one that is stronger than you actually plan on.It's suprising how easily you will pick the back of the tractor up when you don't expect to.I have a chinese LW-6 that is sub frame mount.I can put it on or off the tractor in 30 minets or less from my 284(usually takes me longer to decide where I want to leave it) and of course it only digs down 7 ft.
I was afraid of the 3 point ones because of the stress they give to the rear of the tractor,but untill someone bust one apart the jury will be out. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I was afraid of the 3 point ones because of the stress they give to the rear of the tractor,but untill someone bust one apart the jury will be out. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Harrygoodwrench
Gold Member
Now I think all would agree that a frame mount would be best. Frame mount does take a bit to remove & install whereas A 3 point gives that quick on/off option that people want. My own opine is if you use a 3 point you had better be careful and not force the issue. There have been those that have broken their tractor in half, literally. This is not a brand specific problem but occurs when the tractor engine/trans is the frame. I've seen 2 tractors with cracked/broken bellhousings that used a 3 point hoe. One was a NH and one a JD. Now recently I have seen a pic of a Jinma with same problem with a 3 point hoe. These tractors are strong no doubt but if abused bad things can happen. Would a frame mount prevent this? I don't know, you tell me. Look at pics. then decide.
Attachments
Like you I am interested in a backhoe. My tractor is a 2430 (30 hp model) and am concerned about a 3point hitch unit.
Unfortunatly, from what I can tell, there is no available subframe for my model so my options are limited and as I read more posts on this subject I am getting concerned about a 3 pt unit.
Most if not everybody I spoke with discourage using a 3 pt unit for all the reasons that have been posted. So that leaves me in a quandry.
Would hate like **** having my tractor split in two after investing $5000+ in a backhoe in which case neither would be of any value to me.
If anybody knows of subframes for a 2430 I would be very interested.
Good Luck
Unfortunatly, from what I can tell, there is no available subframe for my model so my options are limited and as I read more posts on this subject I am getting concerned about a 3 pt unit.
Most if not everybody I spoke with discourage using a 3 pt unit for all the reasons that have been posted. So that leaves me in a quandry.
Would hate like **** having my tractor split in two after investing $5000+ in a backhoe in which case neither would be of any value to me.
If anybody knows of subframes for a 2430 I would be very interested.
Good Luck
Harrygoodwrench
Gold Member
Let me correct myself.
If used with normal care I think the 3 point back hoe would be fine, but we do (myself included) tend to get greedy so to speak and ask more than it can do. Thats where and when bad things happen.
Some guys and dealers stiffen up the 3 point hoe by using the drawbar or adding a subframe.
Would I be afraid to put a 3 point hoe on my 224? No, I wouldn't because I would tend to be even gentler than it would really need due to this "concern" of breaking something major.
I think discretion and common sense is the key.
Remember, even bulldozers break.
If used with normal care I think the 3 point back hoe would be fine, but we do (myself included) tend to get greedy so to speak and ask more than it can do. Thats where and when bad things happen.
Some guys and dealers stiffen up the 3 point hoe by using the drawbar or adding a subframe.
Would I be afraid to put a 3 point hoe on my 224? No, I wouldn't because I would tend to be even gentler than it would really need due to this "concern" of breaking something major.
I think discretion and common sense is the key.
Remember, even bulldozers break.
JohnS
Platinum Member
Hank,
The 304/354 series are significantly stronger than the 200 series. I don't know of any non-custom frame mount hoes for the 300 series. Using a 3pt hoe on a 300series, would be less of a concern than on 200 series. Like Harry said, just take it easy. Making a 3pt into a frame mount, shouldn't be that hard. Try contacting Terry at Tractor Outlet, I believe he made some frames for this size tractor.
Please note, the pictures Harry posted are from a 200 series with the Jinma ZL20 FEL and JW03 frame mounted hoe. The break occured during a FEL operation, not a hoe operation. The ZL20 does not have any rear axle support. Even though it didn't happen with the hoe, the message should be clear, these tractors or any tractor this size, are not indestructable. Be careful not to abuse them.
The 304/354 series are significantly stronger than the 200 series. I don't know of any non-custom frame mount hoes for the 300 series. Using a 3pt hoe on a 300series, would be less of a concern than on 200 series. Like Harry said, just take it easy. Making a 3pt into a frame mount, shouldn't be that hard. Try contacting Terry at Tractor Outlet, I believe he made some frames for this size tractor.
Please note, the pictures Harry posted are from a 200 series with the Jinma ZL20 FEL and JW03 frame mounted hoe. The break occured during a FEL operation, not a hoe operation. The ZL20 does not have any rear axle support. Even though it didn't happen with the hoe, the message should be clear, these tractors or any tractor this size, are not indestructable. Be careful not to abuse them.
bluechip
Veteran Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( . Now recently I have seen a pic of a Jinma with same problem with a 3 point hoe. )</font>
Harry, if that is the one that was posted a few weeks (months?) ago, I believe it was a china subframe hoe, not a 3 pt that broke the bellhousing. seems the subframe pivots on pins under the bell housing may have contributed, the actual brake came from a sudden stop of a dropping loaded bucket of the FEL not the hoe, it was the weight of the hoe on the back that made the tractor want to fold in the middle. At least this is how I remember. I think JohnS documented it better than my memory serves... So it could be that a loader with rear axle supports and a 3 point, properly cross braced may be better in this type of circumstance. I would not use a 3 point with the Jinma loader or any loader not supported all the way to the rear axle on any tractor.
Harry, if that is the one that was posted a few weeks (months?) ago, I believe it was a china subframe hoe, not a 3 pt that broke the bellhousing. seems the subframe pivots on pins under the bell housing may have contributed, the actual brake came from a sudden stop of a dropping loaded bucket of the FEL not the hoe, it was the weight of the hoe on the back that made the tractor want to fold in the middle. At least this is how I remember. I think JohnS documented it better than my memory serves... So it could be that a loader with rear axle supports and a 3 point, properly cross braced may be better in this type of circumstance. I would not use a 3 point with the Jinma loader or any loader not supported all the way to the rear axle on any tractor.