Went solar

[MossRoad]

On the topic of the color of CFL and LED lights: CFLs use mercury gas that's ionized and emits ultra violet light. Then a phosphorous coating on the bulb converts the ultra violet into visible light. A "white LED" also produces ultra violet light and also uses a phosphorous coating to shift that to visible light.

So the composition of the phosphorous coating determine the color temperature of the light. You see this in regular long-tube florescent as a "cool white" or "warm white" type of bulb. The "cool white" phosphorous is cheaper to make and has a higher efficiency as far as the conversion process is concerned. A lot of LED flashlights use "cool white" (higher color temperatures) to get more light out of them.

There are CFLs now that have an incandescent coloring, once that match the sun, and ones that are the "cool white". LEDs are also being produced in different color temperatures. The ones I used match the sunlight color spectrum. It's weird to have all that diffuse lighting in the room and have it be the same color as daytime when the room is lit by diffuse sunlight, but it's dark out. Incandescents also set our perception of what a "light should look like". Who knows, for the next generation all light might be considered perfect when it has the same color balance as the sun, which looks decidedly blue next to an incandescent bulb. If anyone remembers Ecktachrome slide film, it was available in "daylight" and "inside" versions (if I remember that correctly...)

Moss, tnx for the feed back. If/when I drone on too much just send me a PM...

Pete

I have two degrees in electronics. Your posts are music to my brain. :thumbsup: :cloud9:

 

[MossRoad]

Both, Mr. Lichen Lane.

The inverter for the water pressure converts to a charger when the generator is on (I have it limited to 100 amps 12VDC). If the water pump comes on, it is powered by the gen.

The appliance inverter does the same but I have it limited to 80 amps 12VDC and anything on is then running off of the generator while the inverter is charging the battery bank.

The entertainment+ lighting+ A/C inverter doesn't charge (it could, but the generator input isn't hooked up). I prefer electronics not get the "hand-off" when an inverter switches from inverting to charging and back, plus generator frequency and voltage can vary a little so this supplies cleaner power.

Our Maytag Neptune washer (on the appliance circuit) doesn't like this "hand-off". Too much electronics in it. We can't start or stop the generator when washing. If the washer starts while on generator, we don't shut off the gen until the wash is done. If the washer starts on inverter, we don't start the gen until the wash is done (or we can shut off the washer, start the gen, the restart the washer). The "hand-off" (either way) causes the washer to 'lock up' and never go into spin (when that happens we unplug it for 1/2 hour and then it's ok).

I just installed my first LED light last week. It's 80 lumens and uses 2 1/2 watts. I installed it in the range hood (yeah, I considered the heat, but it really doesn't ever get very hot where the light sits... I'm definitely NOT going to try an LED for the light in the oven). The light output is about the same as the bulb it replaced after going through the plastic diffuser. This is a light we leave on all evening until bedtime, and the little 40W incandescent was just too much power to waste for a "night light" in the kitchen.
That little bulb used as much power as each of the two big fluorescents in the kitchen and almost as much as the CFL there too (it's 27w for "60w of light").

Phil

Off-grid since 1977

Thanks. Do you have any links to the LED bulbs? I am interested in testing in my home. Also, are they dimmable? I have to have dimmable!!! :laughing:

 

[forgeblast]

LED Downlights, LED Ceiling Lamp : LED Light Bulbs, Shopping
this was one place i was looking at.

 

[weedpharma]

I have only read the first 6 pages of this post so apolagise if my point has been discussed.

When it comes to payback period, most have simply refered to $$$$$. What about the environmental saving? The panels etc pay back their manufacturing energy within a few years, from then they provide energy without contributing greenhouse gases and polutants due to burning coal and oil.

What about your car? Or refrigerator? Or big plasma TV? (Or tractor.) Do you ask yourself "What is the payback period?" Treat the PV system as another appliance - one that supplies power. Then decide if you want this "appliance" and work out what you can afford.

I have had my 2kw system for 11 months (after a 1.5kw for 1 yr). My average daily power generation over the last 11 months is just over 1 kwhr per day above my average usage. I am more than happy with my decision to go solar.

Weedpharma

 

[clemsonfor]

I have only read the first 6 pages of this post so apolagise if my point has been discussed.

When it comes to payback period, most have simply refered to $$$$$. What about the environmental saving? The panels etc pay back their manufacturing energy within a few years, from then they provide energy without contributing greenhouse gases and polutants due to burning coal and oil.

What about your car? Or refrigerator? Or big plasma TV? (Or tractor.) Do you ask yourself "What is the payback period?" Treat the PV system as another appliance - one that supplies power. Then decide if you want this "appliance" and work out what you can afford.

I have had my 2kw system for 11 months (after a 1.5kw for 1 yr). My average daily power generation over the last 11 months is just over 1 kwhr per day above my average usage. I am more than happy with my decision to go solar.

Weedpharma

Yep i have a wahing machine cause its more convienient and cheaper to wash and dry at my house. I figure that i kept my wifes old car instead of selling it for $1500 cause i figure i would save that in gas in 2-3 years by driving it , and less if fuel jumps back to 3.50/gallon. Yep i bought a tractor cause its cheaper to bushhog my own fields and plant my own food plots vs hiring out at $80/hr.

So yes with myself having a masters in an area of economics i do consider the paybacks of all my purchases and the fiscal reposnsibility of buying anything.

I work for the gov. we buy hybrids (at work) cause were forced to not because they make sense. The saturn Vue we have gets no better hardly than a chevy blazer it replaced and it costs us more per month than the 4x4 tahoes.

I commute on the highway to wory 25 miles oneway. I get 33mpg in my 97 saturn you can barely do better in a new vehicle that is smallertoday. Hybrids get worse economy on the highway than the city as there designed to run in traffic at slower speed. You are better of in my case to buy a new honda civic in stead of a civic hybrid once you figure the higher initial price (maybe not this next year or this year with the state and local tax credits) and the fact that the battery packs supposedly have a 6-7 year life before replacement (at least what the saturn vue recommends and i think the battery pack i was quoted $1500 or so).

So in a long winded answer i do consider the economic payback. I cant justify spending $150K on solar pannels today with the interest cost that i would incur buying them, plus the fact that no one would ever lend us that type of unsecured loan and if i got it it would be pushing 6-8%!!!!

 

[RobertN]

You know, I did not really look much at that.

I have worked High Tech for 25 or so years. Never in a Fab, but with wafers, and have been in wet/chem labs.

I know, I would not want to work in a wafer Fab. Man, talk about nasty chemicals.

I do not know how long it takes to get payback when considering all those nasty chemical and production stuff.

I have only read the first 6 pages of this post so apolagise if my point has been discussed.

When it comes to payback period, most have simply refered to $$$$$. What about the environmental saving? The panels etc pay back their manufacturing energy within a few years, from then they provide energy without contributing greenhouse gases and polutants due to burning coal and oil.
Weedpharma

 

[Loren49]

A short comment on Tax Incentives for alternative energy setups - If anyone cares to do a bit of research they will find millions (billions) of dollars of breaks, financial incentives and just plain give aways to Oil Companies and the things that are used by the fossil fuel industries (also tons of government dollars to the nuclear industry including the unending amounts to try to find a safe way to deal with nuclear wastes)
So to cry foul at the incentives for solar and wind is a bit questionable.

Loren

 

[clemsonfor]

A short comment on Tax Incentives for alternative energy setups - If anyone cares to do a bit of research they will find millions (billions) of dollars of breaks, financial incentives and just plain give aways to Oil Companies and the things that are used by the fossil fuel industries (also tons of government dollars to the nuclear industry including the unending amounts to try to find a safe way to deal with nuclear wastes)
So to cry foul at the incentives for solar and wind is a bit questionable.

Loren

i was not crying that the tax incentives for electic cars are a good or bad thing, i still dont want one right now. If oil and such was not subsidised we would have no economy, or it would resemble russia or such, we saw what almost $4/gallon gas did to the economy and if we were even $.50/gallon more that puts you over $3 already and crashing down here we come!

 

[Loren49]

Making fuel artificially less costly than it really is leads to waste and inefficiency. Remember that for every artificial cent you save at the pump, taxes and/or the deficit goes up. Masking the true cost is a loser in the long run.
Look at the energy efficiency of cars, homes and businesses in countries where fuel costs are more realistic. It is arguable that in many of those places the quality of life is similar to ours. It can't be changed in one day but we should slowly move to more realistic pricing up front.

Loren

 

[Larry Caldwell]

The reason I am concerned about payback time is this...
My last two years with the wood burner providing winter heat my gas and electric bills combined are averaging about $1500.00 per year.

In 30 years, that will be $45K (at current rates). I don't think I can touch a solar system in this climate that will produce enough electricity to cover all of our needs (that gas and electric currently provide) for anywhere near that. We are in a lousy area for solar, with 293 partly cloudy to cloudy days each year. We also average a tad over 80" of snow per season. We also get 42 days of thunderstorms annually and damaging hail every few years.

I think I would be better off spending the money on super insulating the house for the winters and converting my gas water heater to wood.

About half that cost is domestic hot water. Solar hot water is a lot cheaper than PV solar. Add coils in or behind your wood burner with a decent sized solar storage tank and you will be nearly 100% solar on your hot water - trees are just big, cheap solar panels. You will have to install an active rather than passive solar system, with circulation pumps to the solar panels and the wood burner. The control systems are simple: when the solar panels are hotter than the tank, circulate to the solar panels. When the wood burner is hotter than the tank, circulate to the wood burner. When neither one is hotter, shut down and switch to gas fired hot water as a backup.

Be sure to install a tempering valve on the outflow from the solar tank, or you might burn yourself, or melt some plumbing fixtures. If you feed into a conventional water heater for backup,they have high temperature limits on water inflow, typically around 140 degrees. You may also need to install an extra radiator to cool the tank if it gets too hot. I can shut down the solar panels in the summer, but haven't figured out how to shut down the coils to the wood stove without boiling the heat exchange fluid, so I just switch that loop to an outside radiator. The cats love it! Standard water heater pressure-temperature relief valves don't seat right after they pop off, and will drip forever. Be sure to plumb it to an outside location that will accept some water.

I spent a few thousand on energy upgrades of this 1971 ranch style house, including new windows, new doors, and upgraded insulation. Wood heat with a heat pump backup, so we have central air conditioning all summer. Electricity is our only utility, and we heat/cool/pump water/light/cook for about $700 a year. That doesn't count wood, because I cut my own.