Well Priming

[MinnesotaEric]

Sometime in the night the power went off and my 89-year-old mother, God bless her, attempted to wash her hands. Without any water from our well pump, she left the tap open allowing the water in the well to drop and draw a vacuum into the plumbing system eventually losing prime on the deep well pump. Then the power came back on and the well pump ran and ran until it overheated and tripped the 20amp circuit breaker.

Eventually I woke up to my mother explaining how we had no water.

After attempting to prime a 125 foot deep well by awkwardly pouring in 2 gallons of water through the hole in the wall in the photo and into a 1/4" bleeder hole without success, I went to back the Great Pumpkin and got a new battle plan. Drawing on my college years, I beer-bonged eight gallons in, primed the well and pump and was pleased that the pump had not burned itself out.

The trouble with the pump house is that some tiny human made it for other tiny humans and I literally cannot fit into the pump house to service anything. Another one of these, "Built it yourself, did ya?"

"Yeah, how can you tell?" deals.

 

[Zerk]

Could you have cracked a union or opened a valve somewhere to pour water in?

 

[STx]

You might consider putting a double-check valve in right there, minimal pressure loss and it will prevent water from draining all the way down again. The check in the foot valve should have stopped this but it's a lot easier to add a DCV than to pull the pump and repair the foot valve.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

You might consider putting a double-check valve in right there, minimal pressure loss and it will prevent water from draining all the way down again. The check in the foot valve should have stopped this but it's a lot easier to add a DCV than to pull the pump and repair the foot valve.

The whole thing is poorly considered and put together. With my fused back, I cannot fit in the hole to work on it.

 

[dickfoster]

Sometime in the night the power went off and my 89-year-old mother, God bless her, attempted to wash her hands. Without any water from our well pump, she left the tap open allowing the water in the well to drop and draw a vacuum into the plumbing system eventually losing prime on the deep well pump. Then the power came back on and the well pump ran and ran until it overheated and tripped the 20amp circuit breaker.

Eventually I woke up to my mother explaining how we had no water.

After attempting to prime a 125 foot deep well by awkwardly pouring in 2 gallons of water through the hole in the wall in the photo and into a 1/4" bleeder hole without success, I went to back the Great Pumpkin and got a new battle plan. Drawing on my college years, I beer-bonged eight gallons in, primed the well and pump and was pleased that the pump had not burned itself out.

The trouble with the pump house is that some tiny human made it for other tiny humans and I literally cannot fit into the pump house to service anything. Another one of these, "Built it yourself, did ya?"

"Yeah, how can you tell?" deals.

I don't understand what kind of pump you have. My well is 325' deep and the pump is hanging at 300'. The pump pushes water up out of the hole so doesn't have to suck it up or need to be primed. The pump also has protection on it so if it taps the well out and runs dry, it trips the protection and stops power to the pump which of course saves the pump from self destruction.

I put 5000 gallons of storage tank in last year as I was fretting about the drought and after tapping the well out a couple of times with over irrigation. A couple of neighbors completely tapped out and had to have new wells drilled, not a cheap proposition. Besides I figure you can't fight much of a fire with only a well pump when likely the power out too. There were lots of fires around then.
My well keeps the tanks topped up and I have gravity feeding the house. There is another pump in the tank to supply pressure but even with no power and gravity alone I still get 10PSI so we can flush toilets, wash clothes and dishes or take a navy shower. If the well pump takes a dump, I have enough water to have it all fixed and not run out. Even if both pumps take a dump and/or the power goes down along with my generator too, I still have some water. If push comes to shove I can have water hauled and the tanks filled for a couple of hundred dollars.
I figured a decent storage tank is cheap insurance for several reasons, maybe you should consider it.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I don't understand what kind of pump you have. My well is 325' deep and the pump is hanging at 300'. The pump pushes water up out of the hole so doesn't have to suck it up or need to be primed. The pump also has protection on it so if it taps the well out and runs dry, it trips the protection and stops power to the pump which of course saves the pump from self destruction.

I put 5000 gallons of storage tank in last year as I was fretting about the drought and after tapping the well out a couple of times with over irrigation. A couple of neighbors completely tapped out and had to have new wells drilled, not a cheap proposition. Besides I figure you can't fight much of a fire with only a well pump when likely the power out too. There were lots of fires around then.
My well keeps the tanks topped up and I have gravity feeding the house. There is another pump in the tank to supply pressure but even with no power and gravity alone I still get 10PSI so we can flush toilets, wash clothes and dishes or take a navy shower. If the well pump takes a dump, I have enough water to have it all fixed and not run out. Even if both pumps take a dump and/or the power goes down along with my generator too, I still have some water. If push comes to shove I can have water hauled and the tanks filled for a couple of hundred dollars.
I figured a decent storage tank is cheap insurance for several reasons, maybe you should consider it.

The house was built with a cinderblock foundation. Then the homeowner-builder decided he should have running water and dug out a 3' x 3' x seven foot deep hole on the outside of the foundation wall, had a well driller come in and drop in a 125' deep well, and then the homeowner punched a half-arsed hole in the wall to run water in and power to the pump. It is hokey. There are no unions and the electrical service isn't armored.

The well pushes water down an inner sleeve to get water up an outer sleeve (it may be the reverse of that as it has been 15 years since my brother and I replaced the pump and manifold and my memory is fading).

Because it freezes solid in Minnesota, I've never heard of anybody storing water in Minnesota except in water towers. Because of our radical cold winter climate, the walls of the pump house are lined with spray foam and the light provides heat to keep things from freezing up.

 

[dickfoster]

The house was built with a cinderblock foundation. Then the homeowner-builder decided he should have running water and dug out a 3' x 3' seven foot deep hole on the outside of the foundation wall, had a well driller come in and punched a half-arsed hole in the wall to run water in and power to the pump. It is hokey.

The well pushes water down an inner sleeve to get water up an outer sleeve (it may be the reverse of that as it has been 15 years since my brother and I replaced the pump and manifold and my memory is fading).

Because it freezes solid in Minnesota, I've never heard of anybody storing water in Minnesota except in water towers. Because of our radical cold winter climate, the walls of the pump house are lined with spray foam and the light provides heat to keep things from freezing up.

I thought about that but realized it would take quite a cold spell to freeze 5000 gallons of water. Then again you can always insulate it or stick it underground if that's handy. My neighbor across the road built a storage barn around his with room for his tractor and other stuff. Many places locally must have tanks if their well pumps less than 3 GPM or so. It's code so you can't sell a house around here without it. My well does better and I didn't need a tank but I wanted one for the reasons stated.
Needless to say I'm happy to see some rain. Something you folks in Minnesota never have to worry about.
I've never heard of a pump setup like that. Just the old time hand pumps that needed priming and today's submersed pumps that hang in the well and in the water.

 

[Sprinklerman]

If the casing is 3 inches or greater I would install a submersable pump .

 

[MinnesotaEric]

If the casing is 3 inches or greater I would install a submersable pump .

That sounds great. The hole is too small for me to work in. :smiley_aafz:

 

[Egon]

Angle grinder with a concrete blade!

The pump is called a jet pump. Motor sits on top and pumps water through a bottom hole educator to suck up well water. All kinds around.

 

[STx]

The well pushes water down an inner sleeve to get water up an outer sleeve (it may be the reverse of that as it has been 15 years since my brother and I replaced the pump and manifold and my memory is fading).

Wow, I knew this was possible but, it's so inefficient, I didn't think anyone actually did it.

It's, of course, very easy for us to spend your money for you but, you may want to have a real hard look at getting appropriate access for someone to come in and set a submersible pump for you. I'm certain you'd be a lot happier with it all the way around if you could do it cost effectively.

 

[Clint S]

That is a jet or injector pump. Somewhat common around here, especially in the older houses. Water is pumped down forced through a venturi and sped up. Creates suction in well and is pushed back up. Like said above submersibles are more efficient and require less maintenance especially if water is sandy or silty as I have seen the venturi plug on them. Looking at your pics it may be difficult to drop a submersible down due to space. You could always run a hard line out for priming if you wanted.

 

[s219]

"ejector" pump

Edit: and if it was me, I'd have opened up that access hole by now. Angle grinder!

 

[Zerk]

T electrical service isn't armored.
.

I wouldn't have used used a conduilt or flex conduit. I would have used a cord or just hard wired romex.

I don't think you have a 125' deep well. If the pump is at the surface you have no more the 26 feet if one pipe going down or 52 feet if two pipes going down.

Maybe there are ways to do it, but you can only lift water so far. Deep wells have the pump down in the well, and push it up. You don't have to worry as much about freezing, when the pump is the water.


I'd make a bigger door.

 

[Zerk]

Angle grinder with a concrete blade!

The pump is called a jet pump. Motor sits on top and pumps water through a bottom hole educator to suck up well water. All kinds around.

I had a jt pump when I was younger, but didn't know much about wells then.

It is creating suction like a 2 pipe system, but can over come 26'?

 

[TheGoose]

Shallow wells can only "suck" from ~28 ft, but deep well jet pumps can pull up water from as deep as 150'.

Eric, you should examine whether you can install a submersible pump and a pitless adapter on the well. With the pitless adapter you can extend the casing up above the surface and do away with the well pit. The pipe from the pump will still come through the wall but you won't have to deal with a tiny room anymore.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I had a jt pump when I was younger, but didn't know much about wells then.

It is creating suction like a 2 pipe system, but can over come 26'?

The well depth is second hand from my father, and we have two wells on the property. The well i'm talking about may very well not be the 125' deep well, but the 80' deep well.

The last time the well pump shelled back in 2003 all we had at our local Fleet store, (which is where all of this came from) for "deep well" pumps where these jet pumps. The last time the pump took a dump, I had to swap out the manifold and the pump (GE 5KC39MN3918X) and the inner pipe dropped when the manifold was removed. My brother and I used a barn jack, muffler clamps and another section of pipe to "retrieve" the dropped inner pipe and attach the new manifold.

 

[joefromga]

In his system the jet assembly is inside the piping down in the well instead of on the back of the pump as in a shallow well system.
The pump uses the impeller to push water down into the jet system which lowers velocity and raises pressure thus forcing water up. You'll lose prime the same way as in a shallow well.

He should really get a submersible or just add a filler nozzle to prime. And bust out that hole in the wall.

 

[turnkey4099]

In his system the jet assembly is inside the piping down in the well instead of on the back of the pump as in a shallow well system.
The pump uses the impeller to push water down into the jet system which lowers velocity and raises pressure thus forcing water up. You'll lose prime the same way as in a shallow well.

He should really get a submersible or just add a filler nozzle to prime. And bust out that hole in the wall.

Yep, it another example of not thinking about maintenance when installing a system. Everything should be easily accessible. Well pits are....well...the pits! In most cases what is installed in the pit should have, and can be installed in the house basement if there is one or a service room on the first floor.

My neighbor had a new well drilled, house with basement, did he install the pressure tank and associated switches, etc. in the basement? Oh no, he installed it in a room in an outbuilding dthat was next to the well. and then found out he could spend a lot more money insulating that room to keep things from freezing up.




Harry K