Weeds, sin and genetics.

[N80]

Why is it that if we want to grow something it is hard to grow despite our best efforts and if we don't want something to grow it grows well despite our best efforts to keep it from growing.

I asked a farmer who is wise enough but is a man of few words. All he had to say was "sin"...... as in the Garden of Evil and the Fall of man. As a religious person, I can buy that. And that may be THE overriding reason.

"cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;

Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread"
​

But is there more to it in the details? (They say the devil is in the details, you know). In other words, I look at a food plot in which I have gone to great lengths and effort to make plant 'x' grow in it. It does so-so. But the weeds, briars and grasses that I have plowed under, etc. Pop up and flourish as if they were the desired crop. And when drought and poor soil are thrown into the mix the weeds hold up fine while the crop dies. I want to know the science behind that. And I can only think of one thing. Genetics and breeding. Is it just that over thousands of years we've bred crop plants to be so fruitful that we have bred the ability to deal with anything but perfect conditions out of them?

Just a guess.

 

[dooleysm]

Local weeds have had millions of years to adapt to the local environmental conditions. Generally, the stuff we want to grow has not been bred over thousands of years. Wasn't it Gregor Mendel that did the first experiments with cross-breeding peas in maybe the 1400's or 1500's? Certainly it was less than 1000 years ago. The stuff we're trying to grow is millions of years behind the local weeds, as far as adapting to the local conditions.

 

[dmccarty]

I don't think it just local "weeds" having advantage. My place is infested with a bamboo stilt grass, nut sedge, and Russian olive. I don't think they are all native but boy do they grow!

As I work to "clean up" our place meaning the places I can see and use, it is very apparent that we only lease the land from Momma Nature for a very short time. Momma wins. I will NEVER clear out all of the bamboo or olive. If I do the birds bring it right back. FLA has the same problems with some trees, Oscar fish, and Brazilian pepper bushes. Watching all of the different plants fight for every bit of soil, light and water while I try to "neaten" the place up is amazing. Momma Nature does not seem to like empty space.

I think of the zillions and zillions of seeds released every year. Year after year. Decade after decade. Century after century. Then suddenly the ground is disturbed or a tree falls and light hits the forest floor and BOOM! The seeds that have survived are suddenly given a green grow light and the race is own.

Its hard fighting them weeds. They gots all day to grow while I have to work and then I spend a bit of time trying to stop them from growing. Unfair really.

Later,
Dan

 

[N80]

Generally, the stuff we want to grow has not been bred over thousands of years. Wasn't it Gregor Mendel that did the first experiments with cross-breeding peas in maybe the 1400's or 1500's? Certainly it was less than 1000 years ago.

Very true. But, even when a cave man selected to re-plant using the taller, better producing plant within a same species, that is still a form of breeding even though he may not have known he was manipulating natural selection. The Romans and the Greeks took this even farther and that was thousands of years ago.

Regardless, you are right. Most of the stuff any of us plant these days was probably 'developed' in the last 100 years.

 

[MossRoad]

As someone else stated, nature fills the void. Just look at a forest (the plants are big and it is easy to see). You may find one very large tree that is forcing any tree around it to grow crooked to reach the sun. Our tree farm has alternating rows of pines and hardwoods. The pines grow fast and in a pyramidal shape. This forces the slower growing hardwoods to stretch up tall and straight between the pines in an upside down pyramidal shape. So, the hardwoods end up with few branches on the bottom and long straight trunks... ideal for timber.

Now look at your garden. You plant some plants and all that open space is just sitting there around them. Any seed is going to find that a great place to try to reach the sun. Add to that the nicely tilled soil, the water and the fertilizer and, well, you have created weed heaven.

I've found that drip irrigation and spot fertilization goes a long, long way towards controlling weeds. I also use plastic mulch under my tomatoes and peppers. It not only blocks weeds, it heats the soil, which those plants love. Grass clippings work great for mulch, but unless you have a perfect lawn you will get week seeds in there. And if you use any fertilizer on your lawn, that just ends up in the clippings and then fertilizes the soil, which grows weeds as soon as the clippings rot away. A vicious cycle.

 

[N80]

When I look at the woods around here I see hybrid pines choking out all but the gums and cedars. I guess what I really wish for is corn, sunflowers and clover that grew the way those hybrid pines do. The only plot plant that has behaved that way, in other words grew like a weed, was grain sorghum. It out competed the weeds and produced lots of seeds. Problem is, I couldn't tell that much of anything was eating it. Figures.

 

[MossRoad]

When I look at the woods around here I see hybrid pines choking out all but the gums and cedars. ...

Well, that's kind of funny, as our white pines haven't reproduced themselves here, but our "field" is starting to sprout cedars! I guess it just depends on a lot of things.

 

[jinman]

It's all the fault of that air-head woman who took the apple from the snake. It's all women's fault. Isn't that what Adam said?

I just hauled in yards and yards of sandy loam into my new garden area. It has weeds in it, but they are easy to control because the soil is loose and they pull up really easy. However, I just also dug the soil out of three big flowerbeds around my house and replaced it with organic humus and cow manure. I had about six bucket loads of soil from the flowerbeds that I dumped into the corner of my garden spot where I don't have anything planted. Well, that spot of soil from the flowerbeds is full of nutgrass and a bunch of other noxious weeds. It looks like a certifiable weed garden. As much as it looks like the flowerbeds caused the weeds, I know different. I got sand for the flowerbeds from the sandy bottom of a creek. I'm sure every noxious weed for miles around has contributed seeds to that sand and I brought them to my flowerbeds and gave them water and fertilizer to help them grow. It's my fault and there's no way around it.

 

[polo1665]

In the past I was never really good about weeding the garden. Seems like I would be pretty gung ho about it at the start of the season, but as time wore on during the summer I would have alot of trouble keeping up with it and eventually it would get out of hand. If my dad had ever seen one of those gardens he would have come unglued.
Now things are a little different and I am taking a whole new approach in his honor. I'm weeding daily and the garden looks fantastic. The one thing that astounds me about the weeds is not how they spread or where they come up, but how difficult they are to kill. I use a hand cultivator to "uproot" and turn the weeds under. It is not uncommon for the weeds (roots and all) to lay on top of the soil and somehow survive to get a foothold in the soil again. Try that with a pepper or tomato plant, my bet is they won't make it.

Mark

 

[charlz]

I guess what I really wish for is corn, sunflowers and clover that grew the way those hybrid pines do.

Corn is actually an example of the 'selective breeding' you mention above. Corn originated from a grass and looks nothing like it's ancestor today. The corn we grow couldn't 'go wild' because the seeds (kernels) are too close together and would strangle each other as they all fought for the same space.

 

[NewToy]

That may be a question better suited for your pastor than TBN.

John

 

[dmccarty]

... The corn we grow couldn't 'go wild' because the seeds (kernels) are too close together and would strangle each other as they all fought for the same space.

You have not seen my corn! Those kernels are not so close!

I have given up growing corn. Takes up too much space for so little food.

Later,
Dan

 

[N80]

You have not seen my corn! Those kernels are not so close!

I think that is what I'm going to end up with this year too thanks to the 'natural deer selection'

I have given up growing corn. Takes up too much space for so little food.

Later,
Dan

Space is relative. I've got the space. And last year my corn patch was probably only 10' x 40'. Got well over 300 really high quality ears of silver queen. We'll be finishing off the last bag of frozen corn very soon. This year, planted twice as much, and may not get an ear. But, lessons have been learned.

 

[Chuck52]

Okra is about the closest thing to an edible weed in my experience. It apparently is a weed in its native habitat. I grow it to fry and pickle, and my wife puts it in soup mix, but I end up giving away at least half of what I grow. It pretty much out competes the fescue and other stuff that keeps coming up in my garden no matter what I do.

Chuck

 

[dmccarty]

Okra is about the closest thing to an edible weed in my experience. It apparently is a weed in its native habitat. I grow it to fry and pickle, and my wife puts it in soup mix, but I end up giving away at least half of what I grow. It pretty much out competes the fescue and other stuff that keeps coming up in my garden no matter what I do.

AMEN!

Last year's Okra was 7-8 feet tall! I had to bend the plant over to pick the top most pods. I don't think you could starve as long as the okra and cukes were growing. I brought in gallons of okra to work to give away. Trying a spineless variety this year. Still have a few gallon bags of bread okra in the freezer ready to fry. YUM YUM!

Later,
Dan

 

[dooleysm]

I was hoping to do okra this year, but our third baby was born May 13th and kind of put a hitch in my planting. Definitely next year.

 

[dmccarty]

We spread about 110 yards of mulch last spring. The county takes all of the yard waste, chips it, and then sells it in the spring. $7 per yard or $4 per yard if you buy over 100 yards. We could use a couple hundred yards but we did not have the money.

I noticed yellow flowers in one area we had mulched. Looks like squash. I don't like squash but the wifey does. That seed was put out in the yard waste, transported to the dump to sit in a huge row of waste, chipped, put into a truck, brought to our house, dumped on the ground, and finally spread by the tractor. What are the odds that the seed would get what it needed to grow a plant?

So we will have squash this year. Unless the deer get it first.

Later,
Dan

 

[jinman]

I was hoping to do okra this year, but our third baby was born May 13th and kind of put a hitch in my planting. Definitely next year.

With my congratulations on your 3rd child, I'd just like to point out that okra is a late crop that loves heat. Many people here in TX wait until June to plant it. It's really not too late. Okra also seems to grow in any soil. When I was a teen (back when dinosaurs roamed) we planted white spineless okra in a spot that included sandy loam and hard clay. Darn, if that okra didn't grow much better in the hard clay. We had the biggest plants (8-10 ft) in the clay. That always baffled me.

Dan: We had a similar thing happen in our goat pasture one year. All of a sudden, plants came up that looked like squash. It turns out they were pumpkins. We had fed pumpkins to the goats and they came up as volunteers. I think a lot of people dispose of pumpkins in their garbage or throw out the seeds when they make jack-o-lanterns. Pumpkin seeds are normally mature in the ones you buy. On the other hand, squash seeds are rarely mature. So my bettin' money is that your plants will turn out to be pumpkins.

 

[dmccarty]

The plant is pretty small with big yellow flowers. They flowers are already starting to close up and make a veggie/fruit. I thought pumpkins were bigger plants?

One thing is for sure. Time will tell!

Regarding Okra. Plant it now. They stuff grows until the cold weather kills it. The stuff I had last year took a couple good freezes to before it finally stopped producing. Amazing plant. The variety I had started producing when the plant was maybe 18-24 inches tall and it kept going until the cold killed it. Does this stuff die in the warmer climes?

Later,
Dan

 

[CrownHawg]

Does this stuff die in the warmer climes?

Nope! When I was a kid, me an my brother would end up pulling up all the plants by Thanksgiving cause we were so SICK of OKRA!!!