Water Witching/Dowsing?

[Anonymous Poster]

I always was a skeptic on this whole dowsing/witching thing. There is no logical reason that it should work. Anyway, I have some acerage that I needed to put a well in on. Lasf fall I had the well driller came out, he had a dowsing setup with 2 nylon rods, connected at one end with a cap of some type. He did his thing, and no doubt the rods spun in a circle when he came across what he said was a vein of water.

Between last fall and this spring I ended up moving the planned building site, to where this original well location wouldn't work for me. I had a old guy that does dowsing (recommended by a neighbor) come out. He used the fork stick routine, the stick spun like crazy when he was over what he claimed was a vein. He let me try it, really couldn't feel anything.

OK, I really figured these guys were basically putting on a show. Still, I drilled where he said, we hit 20 GPM, at 400 ft, rather than the 67 feet the second dowser said. Still, this is pretty good considering some of the other wells in the area. To me, this is not conclusive-may have hit water anywhere at that depth for all I know.

Anyway, this past weekend, my neighbor was mentioning that someone had told him about using 2 pieces of brazing (brass) rod, bent into an L shape. He said he had "hits" in sevaral places on his property. Offered to let me try them. I was pretty convinced that nothing would happen. I was wrong! While walking over portions of the property the rods very defiately rotated (crossed). We walked down towards where my well is, on the way down I kept getting "hits" along his driveway. Kind of made me think there was nothing to this-then he told me his waterline follows his driveway.

I'm not one to believe in things I can't explain. I am an engineer, so went into this as one heck of a skeptic. I deliberatly held the rods slightly downward, thinking that tipping the upright protion of the L would make them swing-it didn't matter, happened anyway. Can't begin to explain it. I think I'll make up a wooden block with drilled holes for the L's (rods), and add a level to take that bit of variation out and try this again. Can't explain it, shouldn't work, but something is making those rods move. It's not magnetic fields, since brazing rod is non-magnetic.

What are other peoples experince with this, or have any explanation?

Bri

 

[Harv]

Yep, Brian, I had my <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=rural&Number=135477&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1#Post135477>own encounter</A> with a bent rod dowser -- an engineer, no less.

As impressive as that guy was, it was <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=rural&Number=134935&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Words=dowser%20pop&Match=And&Searchpage=0&Limit=50&Old=allposts&Main=134811>this dowsing episode</A> that has really had me wondering ever since.

I'm a scientific fact kinda guy myself, but I leave the door open for things like this that we can't explain. Yet.

 

[chim]

I have a pair of the brazing rod "sniffers" that I use to locate underground lines. They have handles made of copper tubing so they rotate easily. My first experience with theses was about 20 years ago when we were working at an airport and needed to find where another contractor had buried Greenburg (a nonmetallic tarpaper type of pipe) conduits under the existing runway. Two of my guys were longtime users of the rods, and it was hard for me to believe it worked even though I was seeing it. Of course, there came a "Gimme them things" moment, and much to my surprise the things worked for me. It was actually unnerving to have something like this work for me. I've never seen a good explanation of how this works.

Wifey's one Grandad had a reputation for finding good locations for wells. He used a pocketwatch (I think after finding the spot with a Y-shaped twig) to determine the depth and capability of the well, based on swings/rotations of the watch. I regret that I never spoke with the old guy about his talent. He passed away before my own experience, and I had written his "waterwitching" off as hocus-pocus.................chim

 

[alan40]

I'll have to agree with everyone else. I also have had some experiance with dowsing. I use a coat hanger cut about in half. I tried a appletree dowsing stick but it wouldn't work for me but would for the experianced guy that got paid for it. I did dowse out a septic tank and lines for my cousin one time. It's hard to figure out what's going on but the first time you get a stick to move sort of give me a funny feeling. Nature's unexplained!!!! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[TerryinMD]

I've seen dowsers at work twice.

Once at my parents house in Pittsburgh, Pa and once on my property to find a good spot for the well.

The dowser in Pittsburgh was a guy who grew up in our neighborhood and worked for the Pgh Dept of Public Works. My parents had to replace the water line going into the and had no clue as to where it may be connected in the street. So, they called the Pgh DPW and the guy came to house, look around and asked for two coat hangers. He cut the hanger into pieces about 18" in length and bent them into an L shape. He then started to transverse the front of the house and every so often the "indicators" would cross. He marked the area and said start digging. Low and behold, the water pipe was exactly where he indicated and it was buried about 7-8 feet under our front sidewalk.

On our property, I was the general contractor and I arranged for all of the different contractors to do the work on our new house. I found out the name of a good pump man who worked in the area and he suggested that I have my property dowsed for a good well site and that he would be more the happy to dowse for us. So, we arranged to meet him on the property and we pointed out where the house was to be built and where the septic system was to be installed and he went to work. He found a wild cherry tree and cut a small branch off of the tree. It was the top portion of the branch and Y-shaped. The indicator end of the dowsing rod was the bottom of the Y. He then held the bottom of the Y facing upwards and held Y's tops in each hand with his thumbs facing down and applying some pressure on those ends so that some tension was applied to the pointer. He then began to walk the property to find the "best" best location. He worked about a quarter of an acre and found the best spot that was close to the house. The top of the Y would begin to wiggle and then just point down when he found a spot for the well. He found three or four spots but chose the one that gave the strongest indication. It was something to watch.

I took the cherry indicator with me and tried it at the house we were living at the time. (I didn't want to embarass myself in front of the dowser mind you. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif) I held it just like he did and walked my front yard and it worked. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif We were renting from a co-worker and I asked her if she knew where the water line was and she pointed them out to me. The line was where I dowsed and the pointer indicated. (play music from the Twilight Zone please....)

There are things in this wide and wonderful world that just cannot be explained. When it comes to dowsing, I've seen it work and I've done it myself. I would not bet the farm on my abilities - no way. I've only done it once and it may have been a fluke. Or maybe I have the ability and not know it. However, I would use a dowser again and recommend the use of an experience one.

Terry

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Northern Supply carries a dowser thingy. It's a plastic handle sorta kinda about the size and shape of a bicycle grip. Inside of it is a telesoping whatchamacallit about like a radio antenna. When it's fully extended the rod folds to a ninety degree angle from the handle and swivels easy as a BB in a boxcar.

You hold the puppy out front of you like as you walk. When you hit a field of something flowing, electic, telco, water, gas, etc the rod will hang a ninety just like it seen something a whole cuter over thataway.

I've used the copper and or brass or wire "L's" many times for locating utilities. Supposedly my dad's dad was born with a dowser's spirit deluxe.

Here's an interesting glitch for you to pause over. I can locate and dowse. My dad who's probably the closest person to me in thwhole world on many levels can't. I can locate a signal with the locator, hand the thing to him and it won't do squat no matter if'n he stood on his head and wiggled his ears to make it grin. The only real big difference between dad and me that I've found is our reactions to fire ants. They bite him and he's sick big time. They bite me and all I get is mad.

Now I'm not saying you should ask your dowser about how he reacts to ant bites. But it makes about as much sense as the rest of this. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[dourobob]

<font color=blue>the experianced guy that got paid for it. </font color=blue>

Interesting - in my neck of the world the "real" dowsers will not accept "payment" - now a cold one rarely goes amiss /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif but no cash changes hands. Part of the mystique I guess.

BTW - the rods do work for me but I don't really have enough experieince to be confident about the results./w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

 

[stmiller2]

I had a well drilled on my farm last summer. I had two separate drillers visit the farm.

The first used a Y-shaped wild cherry branch to locate a site where he said two veins crossed.

The second used the dowser thingy. I was amazed when he chose the same site.

A friend said that he could dowse with two L-shaped copper wires. Sure enough, he chose the same site. He let me use the wires, and they crossed at that site.

(I chose an inconspicuous way of marking the site, so none of the dowsers knew what the others had done).


The proof is in the pudding. I got 60 gallons per minute from the 200-foot well that was drilled at the site.

 

[dourobob]

Following this string I was reminded of our early time on this farm where we have been for 20+years. A friend of my Dad's witched wells and I asked him to come over and tell us what sites would be good if we had to put in a new well - the one being used was a dug well only 24 feet deep and we really didn't have a sense of its capacity. Well Jack wandered all over our property within 1000 feet of the house using a crabapple branch and identified three or four likely locations but he kept coming back to the site of our well and said "You'll never run out of water here. Whoever picked this location knew what they were doing." Well 20 years later my wife is running a B&B with two luxury suites (therapeutic whirlpools for two etc.) and lots more laundry and, even through a couple of drought summers and watering 45 head of cattle the well has only been pumped dry twice - both times were my fault/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif (no cure for stupidity) /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif 'cause I left hoses running in the barn for 8 -10 hours, but the well recovered in about 2 hours.

Jack also told me he once offered to pay the costs for a conventional well driller to move his rig from a 250 foot deep dry hole to a site Jack had witched about 100 feet away if he didn't hit water within 30 feet. Well, at 18 feet he hit an Artesian well - it goes without saying the land owner was pleased.

The proof ---- well it just works!

Bob

 

[PitbullMidwest]

<font color=blue>...he hit an Artesian well </font color=blue>

what exactly is an Artesian well?

 

[patrickg]

Water witching... I remain so skeptical that I almost squeek when I walk. If it wasn't for all the documented success stories I'd write it off completely.

About making a holding fixture to elliminate subconscious manipulation of the rods/sticks/forked stick/whatever. Waste of time. As you take the human out of the loop you are basically making a machine for finding water or whatever and all your engineering and science won't make an automated dowser (approximating the rig used by dowsing witches) with no man-in-the-loop. Another thing to consider is that although the dowser may have a strong opinion regarding the "way it works" there is probably no scientific connection between the dowser's belief and reality, with the exception that some reliably find water. It is not important that the dowser understand what is really happening and could be counterproductive.

I was for a time associated with a research group made up of mostly scientists, engineers, psychologists, etc. who were researching paranormal activities and phenomena. In general, the "sensitive" or research subject, or in this instance water dowser, does not really know how they do what they do, even though often extremely sure they do. One of the "prime directives" is to NOT tell them they are wrong or suggest an alternative explanation is possible or any such similar exchange. The task at hand was two fold: 1. go along with them and maintain a neutral to supportive atmosphere and 2. Pay close atention to accurate observation and instrumentation so as to be able to factor out any mumbo jumbo and cut to the chase. Was something going on and if so what and could it be explained by normal means.

Of course you get several fakes who want to have you "certify" their mystic powers so you have to be vigilant and luckily we had some fairly astute magicians among our ranks who saw us through those situations. I have no research notes or papers to offer but will make a claim that can be acccepted or rejected. The dowsing aparatus serves the role of Ouija board and acts as a feedback mechanism to allow the person's subconscious to communicate with the external world. It is not unlike automatic writing where in a trance state a subject's hand will write perfectly readable text but the guy writing it doesn't (consciously) know what he wrote until he reads it. Similarly the aparatus (dowsing rods/sticks/whatever) serve as an external indicator of a subconscious process. Of course the dowser is manipulating the indicator and he is actually feeling NOTHING from the environment through the aparatus B U T he doesn't know that and his perception is that the aparatus "just moved on its own".

Think about it. Dowsers use whatever they think works, brass rods, forked sticks of whatever species. Surely no one thinks brass rods and cherry branches would react to any physical phenomena (short of gravity) in a similar manner. Willow is quite popular with some because as everyone knows, Willow trees always seek water and are found where there is water. This is the mumbo jumbo part and it is counterproductive to discuss this line of thought with the dowser. Just remain neutral to supportive and take any help you can get. As far as the mechanism by which some folks can get remote subconscious impressions, telesensory abilities, that is NOT my specialty. I have seen lots of "stuff", interesting stuff that couldn't be debunked so I believe there are things going on that we just don't understand yet. Not understanding them doesn't stop them from happening.

So, good luck to all water witches everywhere and best of luck to all those who rely on them.

Patrick

You can read up on some of the remote sensing that the CIA was researching. KGB was into it as well. Same basic phenomena, just being developed for different reasons than finding water.

 

[patrickg]

PitBull, There is a small town in New Mexico named Artesia where a famous well designer worked out the plans for a prototype well that has been copied all over the workd...


Just kidding! An artesian well flows of its own accord. I have seen artesian wells (a pipe stuck into a spring) where the water shot up several feet into the air. This was in Mississippi not too far from the Tom Bigby river. The science behind an artesian well is an aquifer or water source under pressure (usualy not like the oil gusher scene from old movies). Water under a rock structure that upturns near the surface but with a collection field (aquifer) at a higher elevation can have a head of pressure from the difference in elevation of where the surface of the water is in the source and the place where the well taps into the supply.

If you had a water tank 110 ft tall full of water and a little pipe stuck into it at the 10 ft level, water would run out of the little pipe and if directed upward would shoot up into the air just short of the height of the highest water in the tank. Shorter due to dynamic (flow) frictional losses. This is the basic, water flows downhill, explanation of an artesian well. NON artesian wells require a pump, bucket, long straw, or whatever to get water while an artesian well flows on its own.

Patrick

 

[dourobob]

I am not sure of the physics or geology but the water just keep pumping out of the well top - almost like it was under pressure underground and the well was a puncture in the skin of the earth allowing the water to flow. Here is a <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.epa.gov/seahome/groundwater/src/artesian.htm>link </A> with a picture that helps and an explanation that is more precise.

Wish I had one but ... my well still does just fine.

Bob

 

[Alan L.]

The guy that came out to drill my well pulled up in his pickup truck, looked around, and said, "How'bout right here - its behind the house and out of the way". He drilled 500' and we got 35 GPM.

You would think the dowsing method would only be good for water close to the surface, which may be more sporadic.

 

[patrickg]

There is an aspect of water well drilling and dowsing that should be mentioned, I supose. If the driller or dowser is quite familiar with the results of wells in the area it might not make much difference where the hole is poked if their is a good aquifer underlying the whole area. There are areas around here that I think might really test a water witch as there are lots of wells that get brackish water. Previous owner of my place had two good wells about 400 ft apart. He tried to drill another well about a quarter mile south of those and failed to get good water, 5 times, and ran pipe to his new house (subsequently trucked away).

I think you would be hard pressed to find an experienced water well driller that would give a good water or no pay deal around these parts. Within one to three miles of here there are folks with water problems or no water or wells that went salty or whatever. I have excellent testing and tasting water just a slow production rate. Don't think there is a supply problem just a flow rate problem due to porosity of strata. I have a band of water 2 ft thick from about 5 to 7 feet down on one of my gentle sloping pastures in a dense well packed layer of course sand above a layer of rock. Haven't really considered it as a potential potable water source but might bury some PEX tubing in it for a ground based heat pump.

Patrick

 

[Scott_in_WVA]

Pit,
It does not even have to shoot up out of the ground to be an artesian,there is one about 3 miles from where I live,I was there when they drilled it in 1975.It was drilled in a hayfield,on bottom land,it just comes to the top of the hole and runs down through the hayfield,has been doing this since 1975.

 

[micromike]

I have a well in the house I bought a few years ago. I was doing some excavating in the yard and needed to know exactly where the line went to the house. I used the L shaped rods, and yes, I am a scientific type and am very skeptical. It indicated right over the line, the whole length of the line. I though just for fun I would try the back yard. Was doing some excavating but not worried about any lines and such. It indicated and later when excavating we fould an old drain line no longer in use. I of course had no knoweldge of where either line was.

My neighbor has a Phd and and does research on brains at the local university. I asked her to try it, without telling here where I indicated of course and it worked for her too. Both places. I asked her to explain and she had "no clue"!

I had read about the L shaped wires and that's what I used. I however held the L's, one in each had paralell to the ground. the tips bent down with such force that that I could not hold them up. Yet when I let go they just dropped normally. I also thried the L shpaed rods...crossing technique. This also worked. I had several people try each method. Some worked better for some than others. The really spooky thing is holding the rods parallell to the ground and "experiencing" such force that you can't hold them level. Hmmmmm

Mike

 

[Buck]

Well, ("no pun intended"), I just bought the book: "Wells and Septic Systems", 2nd Edition Alth and Duncan. First Edition 1927, Second Edition 1992. Excellent reading that I am sure any TBN'er would enjoy.

Although the authors are very skeptical of Dowsing, they do bring up some other ways to find water.

Bedrock, for example:

Granite ==> little chance of finding water
limestone ==> 50 feet or less
sandstone ==> 50 feet or less

Local plants:

These plants are valid for non-humid regions,

sedges, cattails and rushes --- good water near surface
cane and reeds -- 10 feet or less
pickleweed -- mineralized surface water with 1-2 % salt
arrow weed -- 10-20 feet
elderberry shrubs < 10 feet
mesquite 1-50 feet
black greasewood -- 10 - 40 feet

These plants are called phreatophytes and their roots must reach the water table. Your region may have its own phreatophytes and you can speak your local authorities.

A willow or a cottonwood tree growing in a normally dry region indicates considerable water within 20 feet of the surface. Some species of birch, sycamore, bay, oak and alder indicate relatively shallow digging.

Now, it used to be that Dowsers looked for willow branches or oak branches to do their thing.

Buck

 

[RobertN]

Patrick, I'll take a swing at this...

I think, to an extent, that what George Lucas talked about his Jedi's in Star Wars, when "Luke" was learning, is correct to a point. I know he didn't come up with the concept, obviously, but it seems a reasonable idea.

The Force. An energy field that surrounds all living things, animate and inanimate. Everything has it to varying degrees. Everyone has this "aura" about them.

So here we are at dowsing. I think it is just a matter of a persons energy field reacting with the energy around them. The dowsing rod or stick simply allows one to direct thier energy in a specific way. It is simply a tool. Some people prefer a wrench to a ratchet/socket for removing a bolt. Both tools will work. Some people like a brass rod for dowsing, while others prefer the branch of a tree.

As to it working, I think it depends on what a person thinks, believes. If you think you can run a 6 mile marathon, you probably can. If you think you can rebuild that engine, you probably can. If you doubt though, you probably wont finish that marathon, or may not be able to rebuild that engine, even though with a manual any body should be able to.

I'm not overboard about energy and aura's, but there's events that have happened to me that I believe would lend themselves to the idea.

 

[stovepoker]

I've been a skeptic all my life. But I know that it works. I've seen waterwitchers actually get injured when a stick breaks, in a way that could not be self-inflicted. However, I still have a problem with the guy who tells me that the water is 30 feet below because the rod moved 30 times? Hey, maybe I'm in Europe and working in Meters, etc. The difference between 30 meters and 30 feet is significant. Maybe it depends on the language that you speak.