Water Sorage....Will this Work?

[Silver_Knight]

I am trying to figure out the best way to get water to our new house and barn. The well (200' deep) was drilled 900' from the barn and has a meter there for power. I have ran 1" PVC to where the barn is going to be but am having to wait to put the storage tank until it is finished.

My plans are to have a pressure switch at the well pump. The 2000 gallon storage tank would have a float valve that would open when the water gets to a certain level. When the valve opens this would make the pressure switch turn the pump on, therefore filling the storage tank.

From the storage tank to the apartment in the barn and to the house I would have another pump and a pressure tank. Is this the correct way to accomplish this task?

Lee

 

[woodlot]

Ahh, hydralics, what a mind twisting and difficult subject. Whats the static H2o level in the well? How far does it drawdawn when the pump kicks on? What is the recovery rate of the well? How much of an elevation change over that 900'? How many GPM's are you planning on pushing through the pipe? Whats the HP rating of the pump? Me thinks you potentially have some high pressure losses here.

Watch out for water hammer, there's going to be a lot of energy to stop when that float valve slams shut.

 

[heehaw]

2000 gal water storage? thats a lot of water to store? i have a submersible pump in my well, it was there when i bought the place, so i don't know how deep the well is, but i have 1 inch pvc run all over the place, some of it at least 1000 ft from the well, and i have plenty of flow/pressure at that point. had a grass fire this last spring, so i stuck on at least another 150ft of garden hose, to put the fire out, with no problem at all..
heehaw

 

[Jimbrown]

You can do it that way but it is not the best way as if you try to have a mechanical float shut the water off to the storage tank the pressure from the well pump may hold the float open. The correct way to do it is to use an electric float switch. They are about $40 you can buy them at home depot or any pump supply place. The rest of your swstem will work just fine. That is exactly how I have mine set up except for the electric switch. Mine pumps into an 1800 gallon tank and then into two 50 gallon pressure tanks with a 1200ft run of 1 1/4 pvc. works just fine. For clarification the electric float switch connects to your pump controller. Everyone I ever saw had a provision for a float switch.

 

[Silver_Knight]

For clarification the electric float switch connects to your pump controller. Everyone I ever saw had a provision for a float switch.

Hi Jim,

The electric float switch will be at my storage tank which is 900 feet from my well head. I assume the pump controller is at the well head. That seams like a long way to connect the two. Am I misunderstanding you?

 

[Silver_Knight]

2000 gal water storage? thats a lot of water to store? i have a submersible pump in my well, it was there when i bought the place, so i don't know how deep the well is, but i have 1 inch pvc run all over the place, some of it at least 1000 ft from the well, and i have plenty of flow/pressure at that point. had a grass fire this last spring, so i stuck on at least another 150ft of garden hose, to put the fire out, with no problem at all..
heehaw

Not for a family of five with a small office and two employees. If the pump at the well goes out there is no telling how long it would take to get it replaced. I think 2000 gallons could comfortably give us a week possibly two. There was a two month wait to get it drilled.

 

[Silver_Knight]

Ahh, hydralics, what a mind twisting and difficult subject. Whats the static H2o level in the well? How far does it drawdawn when the pump kicks on? What is the recovery rate of the well? How much of an elevation change over that 900'? How many GPM's are you planning on pushing through the pipe? Whats the HP rating of the pump? Me thinks you potentially have some high pressure losses here.

Watch out for water hammer, there's going to be a lot of energy to stop when that float valve slams shut.

Hi Woodlot,

I really do not have an answer to most of your questions. I am still designing the system. The well is drilled but does not have a pump in it. The pipe is run from the well head to where the storage tank is going to be and there is about 20 of elevation change. I do not think that a high pressure loss from the well to the storage tank is really an issue since it will be just pumping into a storage tank. Please correct me if I am wrong. This is why I am asking these questions now instead of after putting in the pump and storage tank.

 

[heehaw]

wouldn't it be cheaper to keep a spare pump and 200ft of line, ready just in case the pump went out?
heehaw

 

[GaryQWA]

Rather than a fitting every 10-20', I would have used a 1000' roll (or two 500' rolls) of 160 or 200 psi rated 1.25" PE pipe with SS insert fittings and double opposed SS clamps on the two (or 3) fittings. And no storage tank but a Cycle Stop Valve with a small 20 gal pressure tank. The CSV gives you constant pressure and could reduce the power use and electric bill.

The only advantage of a large tank is that it may allow firefighting if the power is off and a portable pump suction line can be readily fitted to it. A disadvantage is water quality suffers when 2000 gallons of water sits out in the sun getting warm....

At 200' deep, two guys can pull up to a 1.5 hp pump with minimal effort and a few tools like a pipe vice that costs from $60-150 depending on the type of drop pipe used and a tee handle for the pitless adapter. The tee handle can be any 3/4 or 1" black iron or galvanized pipe, a tee and two ends to make the tee into a handle. Or any other means to hold the pump so you can rest a bit if needed.

For the drop pipe to the pump, I'd use the same PE pipe as above.

As to controlling the pump... look into remote (radio) controlled from a float switch in the tank to a receiver at the power pole at the well. Roam around here a bit:
http://www.isaacstech.com/radio_products/index.htm
http://www.isaacstech.com/radio_products/applications/tnkpmpap.pdf

Gary
Quality Water Associates

 

[woodlot]

Nice post; good info. I'd like to learn more about CSV, got a link?

 

[Jimbrown]

Yep thats true. I misunderstood and thought the storage tank was at the well head. I have my storage tank and pressure tanks at the well head. Sorry for not undrstanding. your way will work just need to be sure the float will reliably shut off the pressure switch. I would get one with the lowest cut off I could find 40Lb I think and then maybe try to set it lower. I have not had much luck changing the cut off on the pressure switches.

 

[Highbeam]

Wouldn't another advantage to a large storage tank be to make up for a slow production rate out of the well? and/or expected large bursts of water consumption?

If the well pump is only used to fill a storage tank then it can be a much smaller pump with smaller line and smaller flows. From the storage tank, a jet pump can be used to bump the stored water up to full pressure.

I like the sound of the CSV too. Am I reading that this system eliminates the need for the large blue expansion tanks? What kind of extra cost for that.

I have used PE to drop a temporary pump in my 80 foot well but I often wondered if it would wind up when the pump kicked on and off.

 

[GaryQWA]

The link for CSV;
http://www.cyclestopvalves.com

The higher than normal water use will require the well to produce that volume to refill the tank. The pump runs will have to be timed or the well goes dry. Then there is little sense in having the tank. Unless you pay for delivered water for the tank or time the refill over hours; which isn't very difficult to do.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

 

[heehaw]

store water to keep the well from going dry!!! now i understand!! i guess i missed that somewhere...i've done that a couple times.. using a timer on the pump, so it would kick on and run for a few minutes, making sure it didn't run long enough to pump the well dry..but it would kick on 24-7..so it kept up with usage: used a solenoid valve from an ice maker once..that actually worked pretty well: the float activated a small switch that would shut off power to the solenoid: cheap and readily available.
heehaw

 

[RonMar]

So I assume you are using the pressurized line to avoid the problem of wireing the controller the 900' from the tank to the wellhead. If I were doing it this way, I think I would put in the controller at the tank and wire it, skipping the pressurization step and have the float switch in the tank control the pump directly. 2000 gallons is a lot of water for the initial fillup, but once full I would set the floats up to always keep it topped off. Is this tank below ground. You could also have water quality issues with well water exposed to air(from the tank air vent) in the tank for long periods, particularly if it is heated/cooled by sun and ambient air temp. Since the purpose of the 2000 gallons is a backup to a failed well pump, I am assuming you will have another float switch set to sound an alarm if the water drops below the lowest mormal tank level.

 

[GaryQWA]

If he doesn't use pressure to control the pump, he must control the 230vac to the pump, which would require a more complicted 'fix' and mucho money. Keeping the 900' of water line prressurized is another benefit.

If it were me, I'd do away with the storage tank unless it's required for fire fighting. Stored water suffers quality wise, which then costs more money and maintenance.