Water Pipes in the unheated barn

[ustmd]

I am looking for some advice from those of you in the cold weather part of the country.

In my wife's unheated, uninsulated barn, we have a hot water heater, toilet, utility sink, washer/dryer and a couple of faucets.

For the first 8 years, we had no problems with the pipes freezing--we would put frost covers on the faucets, leave the utility sink dripping (our lowest temps were in the high teens). For the last two years (with consecutive lows in single digits), I have become quite the expert on repairing broken pipes. I have left the pipes dripping, I have shut the water off and opened all of the facets, I have put some heat lamps out, all with no luck.

Next Spring, I am going to be gutting and remodeling the the wash room. As part of the remodel, I want to rework the plumbing to help avoid these problems in the future.

So far, I am considering:

1. Running the plumbing on the outside of the walls (in the room)

My thinking is that at least it would be easier to repair when/if it breaks. Also, I will be install batt insulation in the walls and figure this would bring the pipes into a "warmer" area.

2. Installing the bumbling in such that I could shut the water off and drain all of the pipes in the barn. All of the runs would need to have a T and a shut off installed at the low point

This option appeals to me, but I am, concerned about getting some trapped low spots that would freeze and break.

3. Install the electrical pipe heater tape (not really crazy about this option because of cost and safety risk).

4. Just insulating all of the pipe and think positive thoughts.

So, what do you guys in the really cold areas do about the pipes in unheated barns/buildings?

Any thoughts on my different options?

A note--not that is should matter, but all of the piping is schedule 40 PVC.

Thanks for the feedback

 

[5030]

Put isolator valves in the house (heated part) and fill the exposed plumbing with RV antifreeze. Don't forget the washer machine. I keep my Maytag wringer (for rags) in the barn and I drain the washer as best I can and fill with RV antifreeze.

Drain the toilet tank and the bowl and dump in some RV antifreeze as well. The sanitary under the floor won't freeze because it has sewer gas in it.

 

[dusty3030]

One of those oil filled radiator looking space heaters with the electronic thermostats. I have a couple of those. Set the thermostat temp as low as it will go and with it shut up in an insulated room it will keep it plenty warm and not have to run much.

 

[BobRip]

I have a remote thermometer in my garage so I can check the temperature and take appropriate action. This has saved me from burning a lot of wood. I have a shutoff with drain underground next to the building. I can also fire up the wood stove.

 

[moored4]

I drain everything that I do not need during the winter, the one hose bib in the barn that is left charged is insulated and has heat tape on it when it gets really cold I have a small heater that keeps the water hose connected to it from freezing. All other pipes not in use, I have put a tee in the line and have made a plug with a air hose fitting and blow them out, had not thought about putting RV antifreezes in them also, the low spot is 4 feet deep so that should never freeze here with the temps. that we have here!

 

[NormL]

I may have missed it while reading your post but do you keep this plumbing functional during the winter months or do you shut it down? We have buried water lines for garden irrigation out here and for winter we blow them out with compressed air. If you decide to insulate, you might consider Styrofoam as an alternative to batt insulation provided it does not violate some kind of local codes. Once insulated like that, any heater set on low will keep things from freezing.

On a personal note, we live in a mobile home and our sewage discharges into a holding tank buried beside the MH. I've had the exposed portion of sewage line, about five feet long, freeze up because the skirting around the MH is not insulated and our temps in January can be severe. I sloped it the way the recommendations stipulated and it still froze. My remedy was to box it in with 2" Styrofoam and place two 60 watt electric light bulbs in the box. I leave them plugged in from beginning of December through to end of March and no more freeze up.

 

[Smallplot]

Make sure the exposed pipes do not have a draft directly on them. If possible make an interior room and keep it heated to around 50 deg where all the water pipes are. if you have a hose connection inside the barn, make sure it is a frost free variety. I don't like heat tape for obvious reasons but they make economical space heaters either LP, Natural Gas, or Electric varieties. If you have to remodel anyway, you may consider radiant heat in the floor since you already have a water heater there anyway.

Don't know how tall your building is on the inside but keep the ceiling as low as possible and don't skimp on insulation here either. If your barn is tall enough, you can have a nice storage space on top of the "roof" of you interior room for all those big boy toy parts Just attach a stairway to one side on the walls.

 

[Ranger Rick]

Next Spring, I am going to be gutting and remodeling the the wash room. As part of the remodel, I want to rework the plumbing to help avoid these problems in the future.

Thanks for the feedback

Since you are thinking of redoing the pipes I would suggest that you use PEX tubing for your water supply line. PEX can freeze without breaking it just expands with any ice formation. You would still winterize the washer and sink traps but you would not have to worry about a little bit of water left in the lines when you turn them off and drain them. Rick

 

[DwightD123]

Ok, I can sure put some input here as I have lived through this and have great experience in resolving the issue. I researched PEX and several heated pipe options. For me what made since was CPVC with a blowout fitting purchased from an RV Supply store. CPVC is more freeze resistant than PVC and isn't prone to as many valleys as PEX. PEX will freeze and burst especially succeptible at the fittings although like CPVC it is more resistant. I am sure it would be just as succesful as CPVC if blown out but for me the extra cost didnt make sense for the same result and again the fittings and valleys made me nervous.
In a nutshell here is what I did and have had 2 years of cold temps with success compared to one year like you had replacing pipes constantly.
- Plumb a low point a spicket drain preferrably with easy access and outdoors.
-At the termination of the line put in the blowout fitting with a T valve and keep it off to avoid some faulty mishap. You will want this blowout valve at the highest point.
-I also put in shutoff valves at the water heater so I could blowout the lines and just drain the HW Heater if I chose.
When I leave I open the drain spicket and hook my compressor to the blowout fitting, open the T Valve and out goes every bit of water in the lines.
I also put RV antifreeze in the drain lines and toilet as previous posters have mentioned.
My house is a post and beam with the floor and skirting completely uninsulated.
Once you get it done right you will be extremely happy.
Also in the extremely cold weather and while you are there a simple light bulb (incandescent) will help ward of the freeze if you have any exposed pipes.

 

[billybobjimmyjoejack]

I agree with the compressed air blow out system it worked really well in my barn. PEX or WIRSBO plastic pipe is a great new product and I would recommend it for your replacement. Even though the pipe itself has a very high burst rate the metal fittings do not. Just make sure you drain as much water as possible and when installing the new pipes avoid having low spots.